JRE - Striking and BJJ

[Headhunter]

At th end of the day. Fighting is pure luck....anyone can beat anyone on any day no matter what you train. A boxer could ko a wrestler, a wrestler could beat a Muay Thai guy, a Muay Thai guy could beat a jiu jitsu, a jiu jitsu guy could beat a Muay Thai, a Krav Maga guy could beat an Mma fighter and a Mma fighter could beat a Krav Maga guy. It really is as simple as that. There's no guarantees in fighting....fighting is a very dangerous and very stupid thing to do. Best thing for self defence...keep your mouth shut, avoid trouble, you feel something's about to go down get the hell out of there

 

[pdg]

What do you think of this?

I agree with much he said.

I don't entirely agree with some of it.

I disagree with a portion of it.


So, firstly - closing the distance.

SD situation, someone pulls a knife (or there's a chance they have one) then I want away - second choice is keeping distance - absolute last choice is closing the distance.

He said the only defence against grappling is grappling - for one I don't think that's entirely correct (although recognising a grappling entry is a good plan) and for two what are the chances of having to "self defend" against a grappler anyway? More likely you'll be defending against a "street boxer".

Any situation - he appears to be talking close range striking, punches and knees. That's not my distance. Closing that distance is a matter of leaning forward. My distance is over double that, you'll need to be stepping to close that - which gives me chance to avoid and/or counter because I'm going to be that little bit more likely to see you coming.

Don't get me wrong, against a good (or better) grappler I'll likely have issues, but against one that is comparable in ability to my striking? No. Do not agree.


He also said about striking arts training "your reverse punch, your jab/cross/knee, your elbows" - that's not my style of striking. My offensive hand techniques are crap and I know it. That's why my hands get used for defence and distraction.


Really, if your idea of a striking art is punches and knees (which is what his seems to be) then yeah, I agree - against a grappler you'll be playing right into their court.

I like range, I like proper kicks, I don't always need a foot on the floor and if it happens and I'm on the ground I can kick from there too.

 

[Hanzou]

Sure about that?

And how many times in the history of MMA has that actually happened?

Again, we're talking low percentage vs high percentage.

 

[Headhunter]

And how many times in the history of MMA has that actually happened.

Again, we're talking low percentage vs high percentage.

Ah so it's something that /rarely/ happens now as opposed to something that never happens before I posted that clip. Also I've seen it happen plenty of times in local shows and not just with knees either. Guy goes to shoot in ducks right into an uppercut. I've seen that happen loads of times

 

[Hanzou]

how is that?

Have you simply missed the last 25 years of martial arts history?

 

[pdg]

The counter to grappling is grappling.
The counter to strikiing is striking or grappling.

Well, no.

I get out to my range, you shoot in for a double leg.

You have to step first, that gives me an extra beat to side step.

Now you're face down on the floor and I'm stood next to you. Probably restomping your groin.

Grapple out of that.

 

[Hanzou]

Ah so it's something that /rarely/ happens now as opposed to something that never happens before I posted that clip. Also I've seen it happen plenty of times in local shows and not just with knees either. Guy goes to shoot in ducks right into an uppercut. I've seen that happen loads of times

Where did I say that it never happens? Of course it can happen, but it isn't a reliable game plan because it can completely fail on you. Just like believing that you have a knockout punch when you've never actually knocked out anyone. Certainly there's a chance you can knock someone out, but it isn't something you should rely on when the poop hits the fan.

To the point: the Double Leg Takedown is a high percentage move. Kneeing someone in the face to stop the DLT is a low percentage move. On the other hand, performing a sprawl to stop the DLT is a high percentage move.

 

[pdg]

Have you simply missed the last 25 years of martial arts history?

MMA and BJJ competition is barely scratching the surface of the last 25 years of ma history.

Whatever you think, that is not the pinnacle - it's a game, played to rules.

Take away or change the rules and they'd probably do pretty well, but would far less likely dominate.

 

[pdg]

To the point: the Double Leg Takedown is a high percentage move. Kneeing someone in the face to stop the DLT is a low percentage move. On the other hand, performing a sprawl to stop the DLT is a high percentage move.

Not being there is a far higher percentage.

 

[Hanzou]

MMA and BJJ competition is barely scratching the surface of the last 25 years of ma history.

Whatever you think, that is not the pinnacle - it's a game, played to rules.

Take away or change the rules and they'd probably do pretty well, but would far less likely dominate.

It isn't just MMA or Bjj competition, it's all the challenge matches that have come with it. Frankly its shocking that people still believe that a good response to a DLT is trying to kick or knee the attacker in the face.

 

[pdg]

It isn't just MMA or Bjj competition, it's all the challenge matches that have come with it. Frankly its shocking that people still believe that a good response to a DLT is trying to kick or knee the attacker in the face.

I didn't say that trying to kick or knee them in the face was a good response.

Unless they do it extremely badly I wouldn't even attempt it.

 

[Headhunter]

MMA and BJJ competition is barely scratching the surface of the last 25 years of ma history.

Whatever you think, that is not the pinnacle - it's a game, played to rules.

Take away or change the rules and they'd probably do pretty well, but would far less likely dominate.

Agreed again as I've said this thread is about self defence not. Very rarely in street fights that go to the ground are actually from takedowns. It's either from getting knocked down or the guys tripping up over themselves and them both falling over. I'd never put a guy in my guard in a real fight because well why would I do that...I'm trapping a guy on top of me so he can't get off me and now I can't use my legs because they're holding this guy in place so I have no ways of defending or attacking if someone else comes at me when I'm on the floor .....thats pretty stupid of me to do that isn't it

 

[Hanzou]

Agreed again as I've said this thread is about self defence not. Very rarely in street fights that go to the ground are actually from takedowns. It's either from getting knocked down or the guys tripping up over themselves and them both falling over. I'd never put a guy in my guard in a real fight because well why would I do that...I'm trapping a guy on top of me so he can't get off me and now I can't use my legs because they're holding this guy in place so I have no ways of defending or attacking if someone else comes at me when I'm on the floor .....thats pretty stupid of me to do that isn't it

You put an assailant into your guard to control his distance and avoid landing blows on your face and head while he's on top of you.

 

[Headhunter]

I didn't say that trying to kick or knee them in the face was a good response.

Unless they do it extremely badly I wouldn't even attempt it.

Yep it's not the best idea but it's also something that can happen and saying it can never happen is just ignorant. Strikes can stop takedowns especially if your pushed against a wall which is likely because most street encounters will be in tight spaces. Someone tries to take me down and I get pushed against the wall I'm slamming elbows into their head or the back of the head or the spine. Not trying to ko them but to cause them pain so they don't think about anything else

 

[Headhunter]

You put an assailant into your guard to control his distance and avoid landing blows on your face and head while he's on top of you.

Ah so you can't get punched when someone's in the guard right? And what's stopping other guys booting you in the head....don't believe that's covered in bjj class

 

[Headhunter]

For reference for one of my previous comments

 

[Hanzou]

Ah so you can't get punched when someone's in the guard right? And what's stopping other guys booting you in the head....don't believe that's covered in bjj class

What's better? Getting a boot to your head, or getting a boot to your head while getting punched in the face at the same time?

Both situations suck, but one is clearly better than the other.

 

[pdg]

Yep it's not the best idea but it's also something that can happen and saying it can never happen is just ignorant. Strikes can stop takedowns especially if your pushed against a wall which is likely because most street encounters will be in tight spaces. Someone tries to take me down and I get pushed against the wall I'm slamming elbows into their head or the back of the head or the spine. Not trying to ko them but to cause them pain so they don't think about anything else

Yes, it can happen - and like I implied I would do it if the situation supported it.

But it wouldn't be my go-to.

In the situation you suggested - put against a wall - as well as the striking (they're right there so why not) I'd be looking to switch, probably using the wall for leverage, preferably keeping them facing the wall...

 

[Headhunter]

What's better? Getting a boot to your head, or getting a boot to your head while getting punched in the face at the same time?

Both situations suck, but one is clearly better than the other.

I'll tell you what's better having your legs free to kick them away and then stand up and escape which is what you should be doing if your attacked not playing around holding them in place. You should be doing everything to escape and if your holding someone in guard you have no chance

 

[jobo]

That would depend on who you're punching, where you're punching, and how you're punching. Also hitting someone clean is an "if". There's plenty of examples of people in street fights getting hit clean and not getting knocked out.

There's also the possibility of hurting or breaking your hands.

a right cross to the jaw, who your punching has little bearing, leaving a side some freaks most people will fall over if you hit them hard. Even if they dont their brains and ballance are scrambled, so the next one knocks them over. Or you kick their legs away whilst they are tottering,

There are lots of people on you tube getting knocked over as well, you tube isnt actually a source of statical infomation. And we are talking abiyt being hit by a trained fighter not some drunks letting go in a kebab shop.

Ive hit lots of people and never broken my hand, perhaps i dont punch hard enough, but they still fall over,