JRE - Striking and BJJ

[oftheherd1]

I'd imagine you can really break your hand on someone's head if not careful. I think Hollywood and boxing (gloves) give a false impression of how real striking can inflict serious damage to your hand.

While I understand what you mean, and I agree with that to an extent, how about a martial artist who has trained a certain way to hold his fist and strike hard objects; do you think that person is still likely to injure a hand during a strike?

 

[Hanzou]

THey ( punches) are part of a chain, if you miss one attempt you transition into another, to that extent they are much the same !

And if you connect with a punch you have a fairly low chance of knocking them out. If you connect with a leg lock set up, you have a high chance of breaking their leg.

So no, not exactly the same.

 

[Hanzou]

While I understand what you mean, and I agree with that to an extent, how about a martial artist who has trained a certain way to hold his fist and strike hard objects; do you think that person is still likely to injure a hand during a strike?

Yes. There's lots of tiny bones in the hand that are easily broken. There's a reason why Mas Oyama prohibited punches to the face in Kyokushin.

 

[jobo]

And if you connect with a punch you have a fairly low chance of knocking them out. If you connect with a leg lock set up, you have a high chance of breaking their leg.

So no, not exactly the same.

How have you arived at the " fairly low" clasiffication, that surely depends entirely on the proficiency of the puncher, ? , if i hit someone clean theres a fairly high chance they will fall over ? and in the scheme of things im not a particularly heavy puncher

 

[Hanzou]

How have you arived at the " fairly low" clasiffication, that surely depends entirely on the proficiency of the puncher, ? , if i hit someone clean theres a fairly high chance they will fall over ? and in the scheme of things im not a particularly heavy puncher

That would depend on who you're punching, where you're punching, and how you're punching. Also hitting someone clean is an "if". There's plenty of examples of people in street fights getting hit clean and not getting knocked out.

There's also the possibility of hurting or breaking your hands.

 

[Headhunter]

So exactly the same as a right cross then ?

Yep fact a punch is a lot quicker than a submission. A punch is just straight out with the hips turned. A submission you need to get the right position, control the limb, get your hips right then get into the submission then apply it to make it work then the seconds it takes to break which may only be q few but every second counts

 

[Headhunter]

Another thread. Another time Hanzou is defending bjj and claiming it's the ultimate style

 

[Hanzou]

Another thread. Another time Hanzou is defending bjj and claiming it's the ultimate style

1. Its a Bjj thread.
2. I've never said that BJJ is the ultimate style.

 

[Headhunter]

I'd imagine you can really break your hand on someone's head if not careful. I think Hollywood and boxing (gloves) give a false impression of how real striking can inflict serious damage to your hand.

Even with boxing gloves hands get broken, in Krav we do use closed fists at times but a lot of it is palm strikes. Just as powerful and no broken hands

 

[Headhunter]

1. Its a Bjj thread.
2. I've never said that BJJ is the ultimate style.

It's just funny how every time bjj is mentioned you're here arguing with someone. Before I even clicked on this thread or read it I know you'd be on here arguing

 

[Hanzou]

It's just funny how every time bjj is mentioned you're here arguing with someone. Before I even clicked on this thread or read it I know you'd be on here arguing

Merely clearing up some misconceptions about BJJ. In this case, the belief that someone competing in EBI would be spending 15 minutes trying to get a leglock with someone unprepared for it. It would probably be more like 15 seconds.

 

[Buka]

I'd imagine you can really break your hand on someone's head if not careful. I think Hollywood and boxing (gloves) give a false impression of how real striking can inflict serious damage to your hand.

Well said.

Always a good idea for people to remember that boxing gloves were invented to protect the hands, not the face. And you know what else I think gives a false impression of how real striking can inflict damage to your hand? Karate schools in general.

 

[Hanzou]

Are you now saying that you should base your sd training only on people who have no idea what your doing/ abOut to do ?

I actually didnt catch this the first time...

No, I'm not saying that. I was simply saying that the vast majority of the population has absolutely no idea how to recognize much less counter a leglock set up.

 

[pdg]

If you're talking about leg kicks or stamping kicks, those take time and are far lower percentage attacks.

Merely clearing up some misconceptions about BJJ. In this case, the belief that someone competing in EBI would be spending 15 minutes trying to get a leglock with someone unprepared for it. It would probably be more like 15 seconds.

I can do a kick to an opponent's leg hard enough to bend their knee backwards in well under a second, and I don't have to lay on the floor (in all that glass) to do it.

Go on, say I'm wrong.

 

[Headhunter]

I can do a kick to an opponent's leg hard enough to bend their knee backwards in well under a second, and I don't have to lay on the floor (in all that glass) to do it.

Go on, say I'm wrong.

He'll say that there's no guarantee the kick will work...he said the same about a cross

 

[Headhunter]

At the end of the day. You need striking for self defence that's a no brainer. You can win a fight without grappling you can't win without knowing anything about striking. I've always said bjj is a good supplement to a striking style to add to your game but it's not something I'd ever want to be my only form of self defence training. Heck even my bjj instructor said the same thing. His words were "a fight isn't a grappling match, if you mount a guy don't waste time going for an arm bar just keep punching the guy or if you go down get up quick." And that's a second Dan Black Belt under bauralio Estima saying that

 

[pdg]

Well said.

Always a good idea for people to remember that boxing gloves were invented to protect the hands, not the face. And you know what else I think gives a false impression of how real striking can inflict damage to your hand? Karate schools in general.

An incorrect punch can certainly damage your hand, I had a hospital visit and x-ray to prove it.

A correct punch though, that's far less likely to do any harm (unless you're very unlucky and they move sufficiently so it becomes an incorrect punch).

I'd personally always choose a closed fist punch over a palm strike (risk to wrist).

And I'd always choose a kick over a punch

 

[pdg]

He'll say that there's no guarantee the kick will work...he said the same about a cross

Meh, I've got about 20 chances to make it work in the same timeframe he quoted to apply a leg lock.

 

[Hanzou]

I can do a kick to an opponent's leg hard enough to bend their knee backwards in well under a second, and I don't have to lay on the floor (in all that glass) to do it.

Go on, say I'm wrong.

You're wrong because even professional fighters are unable to accomplish that feat on a regular basis.

 

[pdg]

You're wrong because even professional fighters are unable to accomplish that feat on a regular basis.

Against other professional fighters.

You yourself said that a leg lock would work in 15 seconds against someone not expecting it but might take 15 minutes against another similarly trained individual.

Ergo, I claim my right to apply your rules.

I might need those 1,200 chances to make that kick work against someone with the same ability as me (extrapolating from the previously quoted timings, provided by you).

Against someone who isn't expecting me to go for the knee, different matter - and I've got 20 tries at it