JRE - Striking and BJJ

[Headhunter]

Meh, I've got about 20 chances to make it work in the same timeframe he quoted to apply a leg lock.

Lol I was right he said exactly that

 

[Headhunter]

You're wrong because even professional fighters are unable to accomplish that feat on a regular basis.

Um I think you are contradicting yourself there.....you said how a jiu jitsu guy may take ages applying a leg lock against a pro but he can do it easily against an untrained fighter.....so why can't a pro striker easily destroy an untrained fighters leg with a kick....make up your mind

 

[Headhunter]

Against other professional fighters.

You yourself said that a leg lock would work in 15 seconds against someone not expecting it but might take 15 minutes against another similarly trained individual.

Ergo, I claim my right to apply your rules.

I might need those 1,200 chances to make that kick work against someone with the same ability as me (extrapolating from the previously quoted timings, provided by you).

Against someone who isn't expecting me to go for the knee, different matter - and I've got 20 tries at it

Yeah I'd rather have 20 Chances to kick someone's leg when I'm at kick range than 1 chance at a leg lock on the ground

 

[Hanzou]

Against other professional fighters.

You yourself said that a leg lock would work in 15 seconds against someone not expecting it but might take 15 minutes against another similarly trained individual.

Ergo, I claim my right to apply your rules.

I might need those 1,200 chances to make that kick work against someone with the same ability as me (extrapolating from the previously quoted timings, provided by you).

Against someone who isn't expecting me to go for the knee, different matter - and I've got 20 tries at it

I said someone from EBI applying the leg lock on someone not anticipating what's happening (i.e. an ite grappler). You're saying that you can reliably bend back anyone's knee via kicking. Hopefully you can see the difference.

 

[Hanzou]

Um I think you are contradicting yourself there.....you said how a jiu jitsu guy may take ages applying a leg lock against a pro but he can do it easily against an untrained fighter.....so why can't a pro striker easily destroy an untrained fighters leg with a kick....make up your mind

Pdg is a pro striker?

 

[Headhunter]

Pdg is a pro striker?

I'm willing to bet he's better than the average mugger or street thug

 

[pdg]

Pdg is a pro striker?

No, I'm not.

Which is why I personally used the term "someone of the same ability as me".

But, you pretty much said (or at least implicitly implied) a pro grappler Vs untrained and unexpecting - so pro striker Vs untrained and unexpecting is a valid comparison.

 

[Hanzou]

I'm willing to bet he's better than the average mugger or street thug

If hes not regularly kicking out people's knees everytime he spars, it's not a reliable outcome of his striking. It certainly COULD happen, but to say (like he did) that he can do it everytime he kicks is silly talk.

 

[Headhunter]

No, I'm not.

Which is why I personally used the term "someone of the same ability as me".

But, you pretty much said (or at least implicitly implied) a pro grappler Vs untrained and unexpecting - so pro striker Vs untrained and unexpecting is a valid comparison.

It's pointless trying to talk reasonably here unless you just say "bjj is amazing and perfect and bjj can beat every other style with no problem"

 

[pdg]

If hes not regularly kicking out people's knees everytime he spars, it's not a reliable outcome of his striking. It certainly COULD happen, but to say (like he did) that he can do it everytime he kicks is silly talk.

Please make use of the quote facility to show exactly where I said I could fold a knee every time.

 

[Headhunter]

If hes not regularly kicking out people's knees everytime he spars, it's not a reliable outcome of his striking. It certainly COULD happen, but to say (like he did) that he can do it everytime he kicks is silly talk.

Ah so a grappler has to break his partners leg every time he trains then right? By your own logic that's what he has to do

 

[pdg]

I'm willing to bet he's better than the average mugger or street thug

Maybe on par.

But if I get jumped by a child or an infirm pensioner, they're in for a world of pain

 

[Headhunter]

Anyway if someone puts me in a leg lock first thing I'm going to do is use my other leg to kick him in the face and hanzou before you say it wouldn't work. It would because I've drilled it with a friend of mine. I was testing out ways of using strikes to use submissions when I got put in a leg I put my other foot right by his face. Obviously I wasn't going to boot his face in but by putting it before he applied it showed I could do it if I wanted to

 

[Hanzou]

Ah so a grappler has to break his partners leg every time he trains then right? By your own logic that's what he has to do

No, but the grappler forces the tap everytime. To achieve a break all you have to do is keep applying pressure as if they didnt tap.

 

[Headhunter]

Maybe on par.

But if I get jumped by a child or an infirm pensioner, they're in for a world of pain

Tbh I think that if a grappler got into a street fight he wouldn't try many submissions either apart from maybe chokes. If a guy gets top position he's going to punch you. Even if your a black belt why would you give up a good position like a mount to attempt an arm bar and a) put your back on the floor trying and b) risk not getting it then him getting on top. It's funny when I was working as a bouncer in a club years ago. 2 guys who I knew were good jiu jitsu guys both were brown belt I think. They got into a scrap and they just throwing punches, neither attempted a take down and it only went to the floor because one tripped up and they got straight back up quick. Neither attempted a sub or a guard of any of that

 

[Hanzou]

Please make use of the quote facility to show exactly where I said I could fold a knee every time.

That's what you were implying in your opening post.

 

[Headhunter]

No, but the grappler forces the tap everytime. To achieve a break all you have to do is keep applying pressure as if they didnt tap.

Just because 1 guy Taps doesn't mean everyone will....for example kimuras don't work on me. I'm not bragging they just simply don't. Even I'm drills when I'm not fighting back they don't work on me I don't feel them at all I've had my arm all the way up to my back and it's never worked. I've seen the same with people with arm bars and chokes. Sometimes it just doesn't work

 

[Headhunter]

That's what you were implying in your opening post.

No he said he can do it,,,in a hypothetical way like he could achieve the same damage without going to the floor. He never said he could drop everyone on the planet. That's just you making things up

 

[pdg]

That's what you were implying in your opening post.

No, I said I could put that much force into a kick - a kick that you said was unreliable and took time.

My point was mainly about the time aspect.

If you're saying that you assumed I meant I could do it every time then I have to think that you believe a leg lock is a 100% effective technique, which is honestly dreaming.

 

[TMA17]

Well I think we'd all agree you need to be able to strike and grapple. We've all seen the videos of street fights where two guys are throwing wild punches and eventually someone gets clipped. The other scenario is the grappler closes the distance and gains control. Once takedown is achieved, the grappler can control what he wants to do.