It can't be just about fighting and self defence

[Tony]

I was having this discussion with my friend who does Taekwondo and he was saying that Taekwondo and Kung fu use a lot of kicks and punches but i don;t agree. There is more to both arts then kicks and punches and its not just about hurting people for the hell of it or self defence.
My friend wants to become an efficient fighter so he is going to start training in Cage fighting. I really don't see the point of these UFC matches where two people who don't know each other try to beat the living **** out of each other! It makes no sense. Atleast after a boxing match both fighters respect each other and even hug each other and consol each other.

I guess some people just love to fight and get a big rush out of seeing someone else bleed!

Your thoughts are appreciated on this

 

[Hand Sword]

MMA fighters, with the exception of a few, also, get along very well.

 

[searcher]

It is a great way tp see where you are at in your martial journey. It will let you know what you need to work on very quickly. And it is loads of fun.

 

[Cruentus]

MMA fighters, with the exception of a few, also, get along very well.

This is very true.

Generally speaking, the competitive environment (Boxing, kickboxing, MMA, BJJ, etc.) is more of a healthy environment then other martial arts environments.

This is because in competitive environments there aren't a lot of arbitrary things used to determine hierarchies and pecking orders (like belts and titles), and people generally don't get caught up in the ego contests and pissing matches where speculation is used to determine who and what is "better."

In a competitive environment, you get used to losing very quickly as much as you get used to winning after you learn your skills. So, your ego can handle the learning process. It is very common to hear mmaers say things like, "I can hang with him striking, but his ground game is better then mine right now..." etc. It is no big deal.

In competitive environments, people are generally focused on getting better in the context of their game (judo, boxing, whatever) and aren't into the other BS that you see in martial arts schools.

The down side of many (not all) competitive environments is that you can tear your body up. Some schools feel that if you can't "hang" with the constant litany of injuries in their particular mma environment (for example), then you don't deserve to be in martial arts. I obviously disagree with this notion, but this isn't all schools.

I don't run a competitive martial arts environment myself and I don't compete. This is only because the context in which I chose to learn and teach combat is different then the ring or mat. But, I will say that I can give credit where it is due. I can also say that I have learned many positive things from competitive MA, and I will continue to learn things from that environment, and incorporate the positive aspects of those training methods in my programs.

Paul Janulis

 

[Grenadier]

I was having this discussion with my friend who does Taekwondo and he was saying that Taekwondo and Kung fu use a lot of kicks and punches but i don;t agree. There is more to both arts then kicks and punches and its not just about hurting people for the hell of it or self defence.

Quite true. Most traditional styles of martial arts focus on self-improvement, and it is through this avenue, that someone becomes a better fighter, more proficient in self-defense, etc. It's not about primarily hurting the other guy, but rather improving your own abilities to the point where your punches, kicks, throws, etc., are that much better than before.

If anything, such improvement means that you are in better control of your techniques as well. You can choose to apply the correct amount of force needed, should you have that luxury.

My friend wants to become an efficient fighter so he is going to start training in Cage fighting. I really don't see the point of these UFC matches where two people who don't know each other try to beat the living **** out of each other! It makes no sense. Atleast after a boxing match both fighters respect each other and even hug each other and consol each other.

I'd have to agree with the others. The folks in the MMA community generally have a healthy respect for each other. Yes, there's probably a good bit of trash talking, jawing, and even some mudslinging, but in the end, deep down inside, they do respect each other, for the most part.

I'd be willing to wager, that some folks like Ralph Gracie, who are constantly trash talking, bashing Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Gung Fu, etc., still respect the fact that their opponents are in that ring to fight them.

I guess some people just love to fight and get a big rush out of seeing someone else bleed!

Your thoughts are appreciated on this

Yes, there are some people who think of the martial arts as pure fighting. Perhaps there are a few styles out there that focus on such things, and maybe those styles would be the best match for such individuals. If that's their fancy, then more power to them. I can only hope, however, that such schools don't end up producing the next Count Dante. Such schools would be rare, indeed, since I really don't know of many schools that focus solely on the pure fighting aspects (whatever that may be). Short of something the likes of David Abbott's "pitfighting" style, I can't really think of too many such systems.

Even styles that emphasize full contact, bare knuckle fighting, such as the Kyokushin-kai, teach many, many other aspects of the martial arts that aren't necessarily related to pure fighting.

 

[MJS]

I was having this discussion with my friend who does Taekwondo and he was saying that Taekwondo and Kung fu use a lot of kicks and punches but i don;t agree. There is more to both arts then kicks and punches and its not just about hurting people for the hell of it or self defence.

Yes, I agree. There is more to the arts than just punching and kicking. However, if someone is not open to the other things, their experience will always be limited to just what they see on the surface.

My friend wants to become an efficient fighter so he is going to start training in Cage fighting. I really don't see the point of these UFC matches where two people who don't know each other try to beat the living **** out of each other! It makes no sense.

Speaking for myself, I don't have to enter a MMA match to get the same results out of that type of training. We control how we train. Its up to us as individuals if we want to take it to that next level. As far as becoming an efficient fighter, again, I can cross train in various arts, without having to enter a cage.

Atleast after a boxing match both fighters respect each other and even hug each other and consol each other.

I've seen many MMA fighters touch gloves before the match and show respect after the match is over. Over course, watching the antics of Tito, Tank and Ken, that certainly may give another impression, but then again, how much is real and how much is just for entertainment purposes? The more exciting the show, the more viewers, the more money. The word 'marketing' comes to mind.

I guess some people just love to fight and get a big rush out of seeing someone else bleed!

Again, speaking for myself, I enjoy watching the fights and I give a ton of credit to these guys. It takes some serious guts to get in there and do what they do. When I watch the fights, I tend to look at them in a more technical way, rather than sitting on the edge of the seat waiting to see that blood.

In conclusion, it all comes down to the person and what they want to get out of their training.

Mike

 

[Eternal Beginner]

I really don't see the point of these UFC matches where two people who don't know each other try to beat the living **** out of each other! It makes no sense. Atleast after a boxing match both fighters respect each other and even hug each other and consol each other.

I guess some people just love to fight and get a big rush out of seeing someone else bleed!

Your thoughts are appreciated on this

Sorry, I have to take issue with this. I know quite a few MMA fighters (including one that is currently fighting in the UFC and one in the IFL) and you couldn't be further from the truth.

These guys, first of all, usually do know eachother, as MMA competition at such a high level is still a fairly small community.

Secondly, they are not just trying to beat the living poo out of eachother. It is a highly skilled, strategic endeavour that has more than just pounding on your opponent involved. Give the guys that much respect.

Thirdly, I have attended the UFC and many other MMA events and the level of respect that these guys show to eachother, before, during and after is exemplary. Before they fight they always show respect (usually by touching gloves), during I have seen guys stop and apologise if an incidental low blow is given and after these guys routinely hug and go out for beer after most shows.

This sport is not about getting "a big rush out of seeing someone else bleed!". What you see in the ring is a few rounds that culminate all of their training. The sport is about the hours, weeks and months beforehand that these guys have dedicated to honing their craft, conditioning their bodies, and working on their mental game.

Sorry, maybe a bit off topic, but too often the MMA guys are just portrayed as blood thirsty brawlers, which they most definitely are not.

 

[AceHBK]

I was having this discussion with my friend who does Taekwondo and he was saying that Taekwondo and Kung fu use a lot of kicks and punches but i don;t agree. There is more to both arts then kicks and punches and its not just about hurting people for the hell of it or self defence.
My friend wants to become an efficient fighter so he is going to start training in Cage fighting. I really don't see the point of these UFC matches where two people who don't know each other try to beat the living **** out of each other! It makes no sense. Atleast after a boxing match both fighters respect each other and even hug each other and consol each other.

I guess some people just love to fight and get a big rush out of seeing someone else bleed!

Your thoughts are appreciated on this

In regards to Traditional MA there is more to it than just punching and kicking. There is alot more that encompasses it but so many dont care for it and just focus on the fighting aspect which is sad b/c you only get a piece of the picture and you end up short changing yourself.

It doesnt take much to beat up someone but it takes a lot to heal someone if they are injured.

I have no problem with MMA and I enjoy watching it as often as I can. Is it for me? No. Going into a ring just to fight with no real reward (IMHO) does nothing for me. I dont need a ego boost or feel the need to prove myself to others. They all seem to show a lot of respect and class. I feel what you are sayign and how you feel, just comes down to different strokes for different folks.

 

[Ross]

Sorry, I have to take issue with this. I know quite a few MMA fighters (including one that is currently fighting in the UFC and one in the IFL) and you couldn't be further from the truth.

These guys, first of all, usually do know eachother, as MMA competition at such a high level is still a fairly small community.

Secondly, they are not just trying to beat the living poo out of eachother. It is a highly skilled, strategic endeavour that has more than just pounding on your opponent involved. Give the guys that much respect.

Thirdly, I have attended the UFC and many other MMA events and the level of respect that these guys show to eachother, before, during and after is exemplary. Before they fight they always show respect (usually by touching gloves), during I have seen guys stop and apologise if an incidental low blow is given and after these guys routinely hug and go out for beer after most shows.

This sport is not about getting "a big rush out of seeing someone else bleed!". What you see in the ring is a few rounds that culminate all of their training. The sport is about the hours, weeks and months beforehand that these guys have dedicated to honing their craft, conditioning their bodies, and working on their mental game.

Sorry, maybe a bit off topic, but too often the MMA guys are just portrayed as blood thirsty brawlers, which they most definitely are not.

While agree with you on some points I would argue that this is true at the higher end of the spectrum. As in any competitive sport there will be a mix of people who will take the approach you mentioned and then there are the thugs out there who want to wail on someone and enjoy it. Check out some of the forums on Bullshido if you dont belive me.

 

[RoninPimp]

While agree with you on some points I would argue that this is true at the higher end of the spectrum. As in any competitive sport there will be a mix of people who will take the approach you mentioned and then there are the thugs out there who want to wail on someone and enjoy it. Check out some of the forums on Bullshido if you dont belive me.

-The loud mouth trash talkers on Bullshido are not high level MMA guys. Bullshido has plenty of skilled guys that post, but they aren't the loud *******s. The pro MMA guys I have met over the years are as easy going as it gets. Having real skills makes one confident with no need to rant and rave about your skills. The proof is on the mat. NOT the interwebs.

**Moderator Note: Post edited to comply with profanity circumvention policy. -G Ketchmark / shesulsa**

 

[Robert Lee]

In regards to Traditional MA there is more to it than just punching and kicking. There is alot more that encompasses it but so many dont care for it and just focus on the fighting aspect which is sad b/c you only get a piece of the picture and you end up short changing yourself.

• Traditional is a added word to display that art as being taught over time. But the different arts was first better taught at higher level of defence and conditioning training. And the people being trained were still of moral values. Even a fighter Who fights often has another side. Sure some people are we will call them Bully type. But such a small group falls in line to that. And most of those do not train in a M/A art But you have to train some kind of live action to test your self on how you can really applie what you train. thats life thats whats learning is about learn it test it prove it to your self that you can do what you trained to do.. With out that where is the proof. Does it have to be The hard knock not really but it has to relate to real action. light contact at least can show something worked at that phase. allways pulling never touching does not train you to 1 be hit. 2 did the delivery get in or was it really stopped. 3 did it show effect poqwer if it had been thrown with deeper power. 4 what could have been done next The list can go on and on. So in some way we have that test be it in the ring or at the school without that. Its almost like a dance showing movements of what something can be. But not doing anything about applieing that. Do those that get in the ring train that hard daily NO they can not. They train with some kind of control to avoid as much injury they can. Then give the all at the fight. when thats over They go back and live as a decent person does. Its just some people train different and that does not make them so different.

 

[Phil Elmore]

A martial art that cannot be used to deliver force for pragmatic self-defense is not a martial art at all.

 

[Andrew Green]

A martial art that cannot be used to deliver force for pragmatic self-defense is not a martial art at all.

In your personal opinion... you keep forgetting that part

 

[Phil Elmore]

There is nothing martial about a "martial" art that cannot be used for pragmatic self-defense. It may be entertaining and it may require a great deal of effort, but it is not martial. This is a fact.

 

[DeLamar.J]

I was having this discussion with my friend who does Taekwondo and he was saying that Taekwondo and Kung fu use a lot of kicks and punches but i don;t agree. There is more to both arts then kicks and punches and its not just about hurting people for the hell of it or self defence.
My friend wants to become an efficient fighter so he is going to start training in Cage fighting. I really don't see the point of these UFC matches where two people who don't know each other try to beat the living **** out of each other! It makes no sense. Atleast after a boxing match both fighters respect each other and even hug each other and consol each other.

I guess some people just love to fight and get a big rush out of seeing someone else bleed!

Your thoughts are appreciated on this

I think people have a primal need for violence. While I consider myself a peacful person, I to get very shaky and antsy if I dont train for a while. I think martial arts competitions are a great way to fight in a controlled setting.
During the heat of competition, people start to forget that they are both martial artists and are just doing their best. Some concentrate to hard on the martial, and not on the art, and vice versa.

 

[Andrew Green]

There is nothing martial about a "martial" art that cannot be used for pragmatic self-defense. It may be entertaining and it may require a great deal of effort, but it is not martial. This is a fact.

There is nothing Martial about any of this, if it was martial we'd be training battlefield tactics, which we are not. Football is more martial then most martial arts.

What you do is no more martial then theatrical wushu, and that is a fact.

Personally, given the choice between the two, I'd being doing butterfly kicks and arial's, not shinning flashlights in people's faces, but that's my preferance.

 

[Marginal]

There is nothing martial about a "martial" art that cannot be used for pragmatic self-defense. It may be entertaining and it may require a great deal of effort, but it is not martial. This is a fact.

Yes. Wing Chun is a civilian art developed art intended for civilian use. As are most arts typically referred to as MA's. Soldiers tend to use guns, tanks etc.

 

[Cirdan]

There is nothing martial about a "martial" art that cannot be used for pragmatic self-defense. It may be entertaining and it may require a great deal of effort, but it is not martial. This is a fact.

Most arts that have a true martial heritage, like Kyudo and Kenjutsu, are in fact not very well suited to self defense.

 

[Phil Elmore]

A martial art is any system used for the delivery of physical force. Definitions of war and battlefield theaters don't enter into it. At their core, all martial systems are systems of self-defense, at the individual, group, and national level.

Losing sight of this truth is the very reason so many "martial" arts today are nothing more than athletic exercises.

 

[terryl965]

Martial Art like anything has changed since the days of old we have replace pitch folks with guns and rocks are now bombs, so the Art is more and more turning to the sport and still the Art stays for those looking for the inner peace of one self.
Terry