Attack or defence

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Headhunter, May 6, 2017.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't see a stark dividing line between them. I teach both from the very beginning. I teach a simple grip escape (actually, the foundation of both escapes and techniques); a simple, direct block; simple strikes; etc. as first work. In grappling, attack and defense are less obviously divided, since a block is also an attachment to the striking limb and a counter is also the beginning of a takedown. When we're talking specifically about strike vs. strike, it's a toss-up. I teach the block first, but only because I want to teach the strikes as a follow-up to the block. They happen in the same class.
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm with you on this one. The context changes, but if we use MMA as our "sport" example, the footwork there certainly has application in situations like this, exactly as you pointed out.

    There are sport styles that use footwork and movement I actively discourage for defense. I think you'd probably discourage them in MMA, too. (I'm thinking the rhythmic bouncing one of my students brought from his Shotokan Karate-do sparring).
     
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  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That's still a footwork situation. The movement I'd use for that probably uses some similar principles to what Drop Bear would cite from his MMA experience. If you're not using footwork, you're standing still, and that's probably the worst option, even when you're backed up to a wall. Perhaps especially then.
     
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  4. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    In uniform stance (both my opponent and I have right side forward), to move my left back foot to line up with my opponent's both feet will be the 1st thing that I'll do.



    Old saying said, "You may not find any opening to attack. As long as you keep moving around, soon or later you will find that opening." In other words, don't just standing still as a sitting duck, move.

     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
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  5. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    Some strategy can be used for both offense and defense. You try to drill a hole between your opponent's arms.



     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  6. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    It depends.

    Just kidding.

    The best defense is a good offense, I've heard. However, I've heard defense wins championships, too.

    From a teaching perspective, I think that a person should learn simple attacks first, so they understand what they are and what you are attempting to do with them. While you are learning this, you are learning how to defeat them, i.e. defend against them, because to knowing about the attack is knowing how to defend against it.

    Then, you take that concept with you, right up the rank and technique ladder.
     
  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Someone has to learn to attack so the other guy has something to defend.
     
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  8. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    Man, I was trying to incorporate Sun Tzu and here you come in with Common Sense.
     
  9. Mou Meng Gung Fu

    Mou Meng Gung Fu Purple Belt

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    This is an interesting topic for discussion. It reminds me of the taijitu (yin-yang symbol). When I was a student in Shotokan Karate, one of the first lessons I learned was the concept of yin-yang. I was taught that every defense was an attack in disguise, using arm-blocks to strike the opponent's soft spots. As I withdrew one hand back to defend, my other hand would go flying forward. This was the way I understood yin-yang from a Karate perspective. But once I became a student in Wing Chun, my perspective changed. I started learning how to use both hands simultaneously to attack and defend at the same time. Whereas the lesson in Karate gave me an understanding of the basic tomoes/teardrops in the taijitu, the lesson in Kung Fu gave me a better understanding of the tiny contrasting circles within the tomoes/teardrops on the taijitu. It was no longer "yin" and "yang" (attack and defense). It was now "yin-yang" (attack-defense), one whole motion or movement without separation or distinction. Today, this is the yin-yang concept that I still believe in and teach. It is hard for me to say which approach should be learned first, because in my style, both are learned at the same time. There is no distinction between attack and defense. It is one notion. This understanding in itself is actually central to Mou Meng Gung Fu, the "art of namelessness" and why it is nameless.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah well I get my philosophy from Rocky movies so what did you expect.
     
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  11. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    During the Irag war, I didn't see any defense skill used by US.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    This is a big deal, IMO. If a grappling school wants to develop the ability to deal with striking attacks, they need students with good striking attacks. The same holds true in the other direction.
     
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  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I prefer, "The best defense is an overwhelming offense."

    If your offense isn't strong enough to overwhelm, you'll still have to play some defense between attacks.
     
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  14. wingchun100

    wingchun100 Senior Master

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    In the case of multiple people versus you, then you want a good offense. You need to be aggressive as hell to get out of that, due to the overwhelming odds.

    Having said that, I don't feel like I can pick one as being more important than the other. I mean, if someone comes at me with an attack, I don't want to let it land, so I will defend. However, I don't want to block or parry all day because odds are that sooner or later, one of those attacks would land.
     
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  15. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    I did, they kept bombing people from a long way away. Being out of range is the best defence
     
  16. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    And unfortunately, not always the enemy.
     
  17. The Great Gigsy

    The Great Gigsy Orange Belt

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    I would have to go with defense. I like to attack off the counter.
     
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  18. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    I'm going with your son's opinion.
     
  19. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Either that or you'll start seeing openings where counters can be launched.
     
  20. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    you would still need to use footwork. If you are pinned against a wall then it's because you didn't use your footwork.123
     

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