Is Obama black?

[CoryKS]

Well, yeah...it's the Jehovah thing all over again....

*throws stone*

 

[David43515]

Jeff, I try to tell people about how racist the orient is, and how America is about the least racist country going.....it shocks them every time

i heard the tail thing too when i was stationed there

I think that`s because we`re changing (however slowly it may be) and racism in the US is much less common than it was in the past and much less tolerated. So when we see it it stands out alot. We learn to be aware of it.

I can`t speak for the rest of Asia but here in Japan the whole culture is about fitting in and being the same as everyone else. Believe me, I see it preached on TV and in the schools all day long. The word chigau means both "different" and "wrong". A strong way to tell someone you disaprove of what they`re doing is to say it`s hen "strange" but also"unusual". They tend to be racially and culturally the same, so they never learn to deal with anyone different so they`re very cumbsy about it.....and often completely unaware of how racist they seem when they say something compeltly off the wall.

 

[Twin Fist]

like the word for "foriegner" also meaning "barbarian"

and the japanese are not the worst, the koreans hate the japanese, the japanese hate the chinese, the chinese look down thier noses at EVERYONE< and they ALL hate the philipinos....

 

[Bruno@MT]

like the word for "foriegner" also meaning "barbarian"

and the japanese are not the worst, the koreans hate the japanese, the japanese hate the chinese, the chinese look down thier noses at EVERYONE< and they ALL hate the philipinos....

Yeah but otoh the kanji for woman is also used as a radical for the kanji for 'slave'.
So sometimes it makes sense...





<runs for his life>

 

[David43515]

Yeah but otoh the kanji for woman is also used as a radical for the kanji for 'slave'.
So sometimes it makes sense...





<runs for his life>

One of my old bosses taught me characters this way:

Take the charater for tree (ki) and write three of them together in the same space. Then it becomes forest (mori). Take the charater for woman (onna) and write three of them togeter in the same space and it becomes noisy or troublesome (yakamashii). :ladysman:

 

[granfire]

One of my old bosses taught me characters this way:

Take the charater for tree (ki) and write three of them together in the same space. Then it becomes forest (mori). Take the charater for woman (onna) and write three of them togeter in the same space and it becomes noisy or troublesome (yakamashii). :ladysman:

ROFLMAO!!!

(and then they tells some poor Moslem guy that it's paradise with a bunch of virgins....)

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Two examples, both misidentified as proud of being white...
St Patrick's day is "IRISH pride", not white
Likewise, "Italian pride" is focused not on race, but, national origin. That is exactly it, and the co-opting of the term has been lovingly embraced by the media.

I know I'm coming late with this, but...

The difference is fairly clear. If you tell me what "nation" in Africa that my family came from, then I will celebrate it, rather then a celebration of being Black. But if you can't do that, then I will claim "Black pride" because I KNOW I can at least trace my family back to the slavery period in the U.S., and every thing subsequent to that I can claim as sharing a cultural familiarity.

You see, slavery destroyed the culture of the individual slave, if only by nature of the fact that the 1st generation slave could not necessarily teach that culture to his children. Therefore they became "Black" culturally, and all that entails, rather then African.

But the "Irish" or "Italian" has no such handicap. There is no need for them to claim "white pride" as a generic culture, becuase they can trace it back to a specific European heritage. Blacks can't.

But also understand this, as well. "Black" people do not include non-slave Africans in that mix, generally speaking. They are African. It reminds me of my buddy's sister-in-law, who is Eritrian. She could not understand, having immigrated legally to the U.S., how she was not accepted as "Black" by so-called African-Americans. Her comment was, "but we are the same". I had to tell her, as had others, that historically and culturally speaking, we were not the same. She did not have the history of slavery and American racism that Black in America share. Although we may share some common ancestry, it is somewhat irrelevant when you talk about the destruction of the slaves original cultural understanding and heritage.

 

[yorkshirelad]

But also understand this, as well. "Black" people do not include non-slave Africans in that mix, generally speaking. They are African. It reminds me of my buddy's sister-in-law, who is Eritrian. She could not understand, having immigrated legally to the U.S., how she was not accepted as "Black" by so-called African-Americans. Her comment was, "but we are the same". I had to tell her, as had others, that historically and culturally speaking, we were not the same..

If I were her, I would have said "Then you are not African as far as I'm concerned. You're not African-Americans, you are simply Americans." How anyone can not consider native Africans as black is beyond me. It's silly!!

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I know I'm coming late with this, but...

The difference is fairly clear. If you tell me what "nation" in Africa that my family came from, then I will celebrate it, rather then a celebration of being Black. But if you can't do that, then I will claim "Black pride" because I KNOW I can at least trace my family back to the slavery period in the U.S., and every thing subsequent to that I can claim as sharing a cultural familiarity.

You see, slavery destroyed the culture of the individual slave, if only by nature of the fact that the 1st generation slave could not necessarily teach that culture to his children. Therefore they became "Black" culturally, and all that entails, rather then African.

But the "Irish" or "Italian" has no such handicap. There is no need for them to claim "white pride" as a generic culture, becuase they can trace it back to a specific European heritage. Blacks can't.

But also understand this, as well. "Black" people do not include non-slave Africans in that mix, generally speaking. They are African. It reminds me of my buddy's sister-in-law, who is Eritrian. She could not understand, having immigrated legally to the U.S., how she was not accepted as "Black" by so-called African-Americans. Her comment was, "but we are the same". I had to tell her, as had others, that historically and culturally speaking, we were not the same. She did not have the history of slavery and American racism that Black in America share. Although we may share some common ancestry, it is somewhat irrelevant when you talk about the destruction of the slaves original cultural understanding and heritage.

I find this very interesting, I have never heard anyone ever explain it this way before.
you actually made me sit back and think for a minute. I am not sure where I stand on this at the moment, but I wanted to say thanks for sharing a take on this that I had not heard before and on first glance anyways makes a ton of sense.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

If I were her, I would have said "Then you are not African as far as I'm concerned. You're not African-Americans, you are simply Americans."

And I would have replied, "You're right, that's why I don't claim to be African-American, but Black. Or mostly, just American."

Which leads me to your next statement.

How anyone can not consider native Africans as black is beyond me. It's silly!!

What you are failing to understand is that what you are saying is true if you are looking at the issue of skin color only. In that context, I could just as easily say that a Chinese person is "white" due to the color of their skin.

What you need to know if you want to understand the dynamic of this situation is that "Black", in the U.S., means "Black American". It is a cultural issue, not merely one of skin color. You could make a correlation between a person saying that they are "Italian-American" (several generations removed) vs. Italian.

What's more, even most "Black Africans" (as opposed to Africans of European descent) do not look upon a Black Americans as the same as them either. Why? Because of a distinctly different culture and heritage branching off some 400 years ago. At some point we become more then the mere color of our skin and become the sum total of that plus our history and culture.

If not, then we are all Africans...

 

[yorkshirelad]

And I would have replied, "You're right, that's why I don't claim to be African-American, but Black. Or mostly, just American."

Yep!!

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Yep!!

But that doesn't mean that I'm so naive as to believe that the past hasn't had an effect upon the present, including our perseptions of race relations.

Hence, why I included the second part of my post.

 

[yorkshirelad]

If not, then we are all Africans...

I wouldn't disagree with this sentiment either. Not only do I agrwee with this in a biological sense but in a religious snse also. If the majority consider the US to be a nation founded on Judeo-Christian values, then it has to be accepted that Abraham was Ethiopean and Moses was Egyptian.

I would much rather have the designation pink-American or Multi couloured-American based on my actual skin tone, but that's just me. :rofl:

 

[CanuckMA]

I wouldn't disagree with this sentiment either. Not only do I agrwee with this in a biological sense but in a religious snse also. If the majority consider the US to be a nation founded on Judeo-Christian values, then it has to be accepted that Abraham was Ethiopean and Moses was Egyptian.

I would much rather have the designation pink-American or Multi couloured-American based on my actual skin tone, but that's just me. :rofl:

Abraham was from Ur, which is in present day Iraq, Moses was a Hebrew born in Egypt.

 

[yorkshirelad]

Abraham was from Ur, which is in present day Iraq, Moses was a Hebrew born in Egypt.

I stand corrected!!

 

[ATACX GYM]

Well I guess we`ll have to agree to disagree. From what you`re saying the definition seems so broad that pretty much anything short of the weather could be institutional racism if it could inconvenience some member of a minority population. But I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. You`ve given me something to think about.

I guess the problem is so big I can`t see it. I`ll just have to continue to rely on being nice to people until they give me a reason not to.

The DEFINITION is NOT broad,it's SPECIFIC.In essence? The way in which EVERY major institution in the U.S.A. is formulated and operates from its literal inception,it has permanent class,gender,and race discrimination.It was passed into The Articles of Confederation and The Constitution by the elite men who were elitists,chauvinists,and racists almost to a man when they crafted it.Furthermore,such attitudes that they held were common and not considered at all offensive at the time; so enshrining these values into the bedrock of the operation of the United States is not at all a shock.

The DEFINITION is SPECIFIC.The CONSEQUENCES are VAST and DEEP.So the weather isn't the issue.Yes,the problem IS big but you can see it if you know what to look for.And I'm glad that you rely on being nice to people until given reason to be otherwise.I do that too; but I'm alert while I'm being kind.

 

[ATACX GYM]

wow, gee, lets just get all the evil white folks to kill themselves......

Better idea...why don't we educate the "evil" out of folks whatever their race,and if THAT fails? THEN we off them.

 

[ATACX GYM]

[/list]
horse crap.

schools are funded through property taxes, taxes are based off of property VALUES.

why do you suppose the property value of houses in high minority areas is in the toilet?

could it be the rampant crime that seems to go with minorities every time?

how is it fair to take money from areas with higher property values to give to the lower value areas?

it isnt

minority areas want better schools? stop turning the nieghborhoods into war zones between dealers and guess what? the schools get more money through taxes.

^^^This is the rhetoric of racism and ignorance.Pure and simple.I'm not accusing YOU of being a racist,but THIS ARGUMENT IS DEFINITELY RACIST AND IGNORANT.Allow me to educate you man...

It's TRUE that schools are funded via property taxes,but this is merely a mechanism to ensure micro control of fund dispersement.The property values of minority communities are NOT controlled by us,and IT'S AMAZINGLY RACIST OF YOU to assume that ALL or even HALF of non-White (in this case,you probably mean Black) communities are dens of public crime and warzones.

Newsflash: less than 1/10 of 1% of Black kids are hardcore gangmembers.So where did you get the idea that we live in war zones? And since 99.9% of Black kids AREN'T ganxtas,why are our communities disproportionately dissed with lower tax values?
Who put all those liquor stores in our communities?

Answer: Institutional racism victimizes us no matter what our income level or civic virtues are.The Census and other governemental reports from the 90s up to the early 2000's clearly indicate that organized,society wide,consistent institutional racism from every quarter (including banks and media) contribute to the depression of Black businesses in our own community,the encouragement of Asian businesses being founded in our communities much more than White communities,the deliberate overpopulation of liquor and liquor stores in our communites,the poor food selection,AND EVERY OTHER FACET OF COMMUNITY LIFE FROM THE POLICE TO STREET MAINTENANCE AND YES THE SCHOOLS are deliberately manipulated in such a way as to ensure unfair disadvantages and more severe obstacles for (especially) Black people,and that includes Latinos too IN EVERY regard.Our land values are AUTOMATICALLY lower than our White contemporaries BECAUSE OF RACISM NO MATTER WHAT WE DO.This practice is acknowledged by the findings of the federal government itself.


Newsflash: Black people don't control or even have a SINGLE armory or weapon dispensary so how are automatic weapons making their way to the Black community?
Answer: White criminals from the government to the street are selling them to us.


Regarding criminal activity? Let us freely acknowledge that there are criminal elements in EVERY race,and criminal actions will happen period because it's a part of the human condition.But consider: we might have kids who break into your cars.You have criminals who steal trillions from THE ENTIRE NATION and CAUSES THE NATIONAL ECONOMY TO COLLAPSE which then SENDS THE WORLD INTO A RECESSION THAT HINGES ON A MIGHTY DEPRESSION.Who should be censured with the lesser land values,then,based upon criminal activity? Not us. And the true irony is...A BLACK MAN (OBAMA) LIFTED US AND IS STILL LIFTING US FROM THIS DESPICABLE MORASS THAT HUNDREDS OF RICH CULTURED WHITE MEN COLLUDED TO CREATE.Obama is doing the work that White Presidents refused to do by and large (and in fact the Presidents from Reagan to Obama--excepting Clinton for the most part--started sanctioned and perpetuated these horrific atrocities throughout their Presidencies ) a work so mighty that it would make ATLAS himself blanch and instead of being showered with praise? He's vilified by far right wingnuts.

We are RIGHT AS I'M WRITING THIS POST LIVING THE REALITY of EXACTLY the kind of collusion from all levels of government and private industry which you deny happens. Yet you can accept it in the financial world and barely condemn it but somehow or other think these same insatiable amoral imperialist gangsters who'd think it's great to rip off most of the world wouldn't stick it to Black people to perpetuate their lofty positions.You actually DENY SUCH A THING EXISTS.I'm very familiar with this mindset by now (having seen this kind of militant denial by White folks and especially by Right wingers all my life),and I know its root is literal ignorance.As in,you literally have no idea what you're talking about because you're literally unaware; no matter how intelligent you may or may not be,you're UNAWARE.In fact? You've been MISEDUCATED into defending behaviour which is reprehensible and indefensible because you're not aware that such behaviour exists.Like I said earlier...it's all connected.Institutional racism,sexism,governmental ineptitude,private sector avarice,elitism,and more: they all come from the same font.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Ras... I need to see some sort of documented proof of the numbers you are claiming, the claims you are making to look at it myself.
Because to be completely honest with you, you sound like a conspiracy nutcase here.
I can appreciate all the martial arts comments you make, some I agree with and some I dont, and I think it would be fun to get together with you and play with ideas back and forth... your a thinker, and I appreciate that..
but the political and racism topics just make me shake my head, they seem over the top.
I have little interest in actually going in and researching it without someone else doing the footwork, because to be quite honest, it doesnt effect me directly. I would love to have more direct information that I could easily point to when having this conversation in the future though.
I hate to be that guy that says....."Video, or it didn't happen"
but what you are saying is so far from anything I have learned, or observed and seems a bit on the outrageous side of possibilities.
thanks.

 

[ATACX GYM]

That is based on an individuals actions. You have to show how this particular behavior is institutionalized. I work in law enforcement. I have to say that I have seen no institutional policies that allow for the unlawful treatment of Blacks or other minorities. In fact, I have seen quite the opposite in my time.

Since the passage of laws that struck down the de jure aspects--meaning the publically upheld by law aspects--of racism and racial segregation,none of these actions are actually "legal".However,you're not the only one who's worked in law enforcement: both my brother and my cousin have worked for the LAPD and the LASD in elite divisions and the separation is clear cut.Furthermore,you need look no further than Census Bureau data to see that this behaviour is a nationwide epidemic,not the actions of just a few bitter souls.And these actions span centuries,not just specific moments or days.Are most police officers racist? No,not imho.Is law enforcement riddled with the same kind of institutionalized racism that hamstrings the rest of the country? As an institution primary to the operation of the U.S.A.? Absolutely and without doubt.Again...look no further than governmental reports charting nationwide behaviours like the Census Bureau.This is NOT individuals at work,this is the PROOF OF INSTITUTIONAL RACISM AT WORK.

Held at that level by whom, and in what way. You're good with accusations, but very thin on support.

Held by whom. Even if the majority of people viewed things in this way, once again it is an example of personal prejudice, not institutional racism.

Read government reports like the Census Bureau.You don't know me so you don't know that I don't open my mouth and make direct blunt statements without having the data on-hand to back it up.Every syllable I have uttered is verifiable by the most objective methods.

Uh, what?.

I was referring to the general ignoring of,or co-opting of African history.For instance,the original ancient Pharoahs are all Black,the people and populace of ancient Kemet are a Black achievement,and in fact the Pharoahnic Dynasties are merely the traditional cultural methods of ancient Black Africa applied on a national level.And yet...most of the depictions that we have of all of these are of anyone BUT Black people.That's about as accurate as saying that King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table,and Renaissance Europe were ALL BLACK achievements.Sure there were SOME Black people,but NOWHERE NEAR 100% Black.Furthermore,the long held assumptions about Black civilizations only achieving worthy achievements when "influenced" by White civilizations is another spurious lie exploded by many many documents.

I think most Blacks in the U.S. know that their from the U.S., and could easily name the U.S., Canada, and Mexico as three countries on the continent from which they hail. And most can speak English, although some rather badly. And they know at least the rudiments of the U.S. electoral process.

Oh. Or are you talking about the fact that I should know something about a continent (Africa) to which I've never been and have only a slight interest in visiting.

Your position,mine and everybody else's position in the USA would undoubtedly be affected toward a more knowledgeable and positive perception about Africa and her people were Africa not so maligned for so many centuries.It may not affect your decision to VISIT,but it would certainly affect your basic operational knowledge of and appreciation of her.For instance,we all know something off top about England,France and Spain and in general there is a benign disposition towards those countries in the U.S.A. That knowledge impacts us whether we choose to visit these countries or not.It even allows us to,for instance,have an audience for and better enjoy THE LORD OF THE RINGS,HARRY POTTER,007,Sherlock Holmes,Hercule Poirot,Cyrano de Begerac,Romeo and Juliette,etc. as characters books and movies.Many of us choose to learn to speak French and Spanish in public schools (or are mandated to learn one of these languages,depending upon which schools we enter and their charter),whether or not we plan on visiting these countries.This is the kind of thing that I'm talking about that would--were it also applied to Africa--have a dramatic impact upon our perception of the continent,at the minimum.We'd be able to recognize,say,Ashanti when we hear it in the same sense that we can recognize French or Spanish and to a much lesser degree Japanese Chinese and Korean when we hear it.We'd have some (accurate,positive) idea of the culture of the person speaking that language.

I see examples of very high acheiving Blacks all the time. And not just in sports. Of course, God forbid, you may have to decide to look at something other then the TV to do so.

You must not have read my quote very well,despite the fact that it's just above your quote (the one I'm responding to now) in your original post.I didn't say that there AREN'T high achieving Blacks; what I said is that there are MORE INSTANCES OF MEDIA COVERAGE ASSOCIATING NEGATIVITY WITH BLACK (and also Latino,gotta say that) FACES.Very much different than inferring that there are no high achieving Blacks or there aren't frequent high achieving Blacks who aren't in sports.I think Obama would qualify as high achieving Blacks who aren't in sports per se (lol Pres.Obama DOES get his b-ball on though).Sijo Muhammad would qualify.Reginald F. Lewis (R.I.P.) would qualify.Maya Angelou would qualify.You get the point,I hope.Dr.Chancellor Williams (r.i.p.) Dr.Cornel West,would qualify.You get the point.

Really? And where did they originate?

Did you just SERIOUSLY ask me where the cocaine and drug problems originate or are you kidding with me?

Let's break it down: this is not the greatest deficit in human history (see Germany circa WWII, U.S. during the Great Depression). What "extraordinary feats" has Obama done? He hasn't done anything more extraordinary then any other President. He still hasn't been demonized by the Black public, except in the fact that he hasn't been willing to push harder for his agenda. And some of what you are claiming people talked about in "hushed circles" happened with, oh, every opposition group against a President' agenda.

I think the facts will prove that your breakdown is actually broken down.I'm fully aware of Germany's requirements to payback the Allies at the Treaty of Versailles after WWI.That amount would break down to about 780 billion USD 2011. As of 2009,the U.S. deficit was 1.4 trillion USD http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aA8lChe4zUQU And President Obama's handling of this scenario,and the incredible accomplishments of President Obama are nothing short of historic:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#39959392

And uh...there's a difference between wingnut opposition groups Left and Right and RECORD LEVELS of reactionary nutcase action,gun and ammo runs,stupidities like Birthers and Deathers,etc.On top of that? When there was previous concerns about Presidents reenacting slavery or reparations or swigning ironfisted blows at our freedoms prior to Obama? The times they were TRUE,they were regarding White Presidents WHO DID DO SUCH A THING or ALLOWED such a thing or similar things and HAD A HISTORY OF DOING SUCH A THING.I'm very,very well informed and would be more than happy to engage you and anybody else on any aspect of history on this matter.I find these discussions to be stimulating and I don't look at them as adversarial exercises.

It's funny. I'm all of the things that you're mentioning yet see the world nothing like you do.

That's a good thing,actually.We Black folks aren't monolithic,and most folks aren't monolothic.However,there are differences borne of personality and personal life experiences and then there are differences borne of knowledge regarding specific facts.I can only be unequivocal about the latter.The factual statements I made are exactly that: factual.You have the choice and the right to accept whether or not you believe them,but their rigorous accuracy is beyond reproach.