Is Obama black?

5-0 Kenpo

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Now do you think this happens because Black people are genetically more inclined toward criminal activity than all other races? Oooorrrr do you think that this is the proof of EXACTLY the kind of institutionalized racism permeating law enforcement the courts etc. IN EVERY REGARD AND LEVEL that I already told you exists? If you think that we Black people are genetically inclined toward criminality,then I can emphatically disprove THAT idea AND supply the data (including Census data) that confirms BEYOND A DOUBT that these numbers are due to the racism running rampant in the U.S.A. right now as I'm writing and long after all of us are dead.

And yet for all of that, there is not mention that Asians, a minority in the U.S., continues to commit crime below their population rate. Outside of prison population, Asians (as a group) obtain more loans then whites, have higher property ownership rates then whites, etc. They get fewer traffic stops then Whites.

You see, this conclusions always get screwed up once you include those darned Asians into the mix.

So it must only be Blacks and Hispanics that the White man discriminate against.
 

5-0 Kenpo

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Institutionalized Racism in Health Care,including direct quotes from the U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS...also quotes from the University of Florida Journal of Law:

http://academic.udayton.edu/health/07humanrights/racial01c.htm

First, there are not quotes. She footnotes statements written by her in a report by the Commission. Second, the way that she footnotes, you can't even look up the report.

I'll also tell you my personal bias. If there were no "civil rights violations" then there would be no need for the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. In other words, people there need there to be "violations" so that they can keep their jobs.

Wikipedia,Institutional racism,reaching everything from property value and how this slanted behaviour ensures disproportionate purposeful undefunding of "minority" schools:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

Sorry, but when four of the seven citation sections state something along the lines of "citation needed", I can hardly look to your source as an authority on the subject.

Institutional racism in police forces, job force/employment,banking,housing,and other crucial institutions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

No one is arguing that institutional racism did occur. But what you are arguing is that the very nature of these institutions necessitate it regardless of the people populating it, racist or not. That you have failed to prove.

http://dictionary.sensagent.com/institutional+racism/en-en/



Your source says nothing about racism or discrimination. Other problems, to be sure, but nothing about race.


Can't play the video on the computer that I am using, so I will have to reserve judgement on this one.

Census Bureau reports widening income gap disparity between rich and poor:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/28/income-gap-widens-census-_n_741386.html

First, no link to the actual report, so no way to verify. Second, the article itself says nothing about race. Third, this the Huffington Post, not exactly an un-biased source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States

First, your souce says nothing about a widening income gap between Black and White, though it does note a gap. Second, it does nothing to account for that gap. Your assumption is that it is racism, but that has not been proven by facts placed before us as evidence.

Second, although you refer to the difference between Black and White in this source, your overall point is about institutional racism. Your source also shows that Asians actually make more on average then Whites.

These links will go into depth and detail resolving most of the matters that you brought up.Yes the questions you asked were much less "complicated" than the matter of institutionalized racism.These links ought to get you going.If there are any other questions? Lemme know,I can steer you toward other sources.

I still say that you have yet to give one source that actually lives up to your claim.
 

5-0 Kenpo

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because while i understand that not everyone is cut out for military life, i really do believe that EVERYONE could benefit from 4 years serving their country. People tend to learn what they needed to learn. Me, I learned that i didnt HAVE to party all the time to have fun. Other friends of mine learned what character and loyalty meant

Here is another example.

you have no clue what REAL racism is Ras

Try living in the orient sometime

and you would come back kissing american soil and THANKFULL if all that happened to you was store security followed you.

Many Japanese LITERALLY think that black people have tails. MOST Japanese think that koreans are functionally retarded. The Chinese? they think anyone NOT chinese is less. Sometimes, like in the case of the phillipino's that they are less than human. No, seriously, many, and i mean MANY chinese treat the phillipino and vietnemese like they are some strange human/monkey hybrid

You want racism? forget lynchings 100 years ago, try some ethnic cleansing in Africa, black africans killing other black africans cuz they are from a different TRIBE...literally MILLIONS killed

You serve your country awhile and you would be less inclined to bad mouth it based on nothing, and just be thankfull you are here. Because warts and all, and America does have some wart admittedly, we are still the best thing going.

So because it's worse somewhere else, we should be thankful for the amount that we have here.

As my father used to tell me, "N***a please. (I'm being intentionally facetious with the comment. And it is intented to be a pun. Please don't comment to me about the TOS.)

This is really a ridiculous argument. I don't care about the racism in "the orient" because I don't live in "the orient". And I shouldn't have to put up with racism where I live just because it's worse elsewhere.

Quite frankly, though I don't agree with many of his conclusions, yours are just a ludicrous in this regard. If you would actually refute his positions with information and facts rather then say, "Well, its worse elsewhere," I might could take you seriously.
 

Twin Fist

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Here is the thing, and get this, i DO NOT CARE if you take me seriously. Your opinion of me means less than nothing to me.That doesnt change what I am saying and that is

"all the things you complain about are either not real or not that bad"

you want BAD racism? you need to go live in "the motherland"

America isnt bad. Sure we have problems, but NOT the problems he claims, nor are the problem we have as bad as he claims, and compared to REAL racism, our problems are barely worth mentioning.

Thats debatable of course, and differences of opinion are fine, but there is no comparison between not being able to get a cab in New York City and ethnic cleansing in Darfur.

One is a real problem, the other is just annoying.

It is about perspective. I do not think it is ludicrous to be thankful for the good things we have here that others are not so lucky to have. It's like my mom used to say when i didnt like what she made for dinner "there are plenty of kids that dont have ANYTHING for dinner or a mom to fix it, so try being gratefull for once"

Or do you disagree with that too?

and NO, not saying we cant improve our lot in life here, of course we need to, but that IS happening, no rational honest person can deny it.

And I have not insulted you, so please stop with the personal attacks.
 

yorkshirelad

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Heard that Ireland is slanging citizenships for lads too.Maybe you might go there.

I already have. I lived in Ireland from my late teens until my late 20s. I was born in England, but my parents are Irish. I earned my US citizenship in August of last year due to service as an Infantryman. When my Irish and British passports expire, they will not be renewed. I am a proud US citizen and have wanted US citizenship for as long as I can remember.
As for me? I'm not exactly a shrinking violet
You actually seem like a shrinking violet. You have a victim mentality. It seems that to you, white people are to blame for all your ills.
 

ATACX GYM

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because while i understand that not everyone is cut out for military life, i really do believe that EVERYONE could benefit from 4 years serving their country. People tend to learn what they needed to learn. Me, I learned that i didnt HAVE to party all the time to have fun. Other friends of mine learned what character and loyalty meant

Here is another example.

you have no clue what REAL racism is Ras

Try living in the orient sometime

and you would come back kissing american soil and THANKFULL if all that happened to you was store security followed you.

Many Japanese LITERALLY think that black people have tails. MOST Japanese think that koreans are functionally retarded. The Chinese? they think anyone NOT chinese is less. Sometimes, like in the case of the phillipino's that they are less than human. No, seriously, many, and i mean MANY chinese treat the phillipino and vietnemese like they are some strange human/monkey hybrid

You want racism? forget lynchings 100 years ago, try some ethnic cleansing in Africa, black africans killing other black africans cuz they are from a different TRIBE...literally MILLIONS killed

You serve your country awhile and you would be less inclined to bad mouth it based on nothing, and just be thankfull you are here. Because warts and all, and America does have some wart admittedly, we are still the best thing going.

This is actually a purrty decent post.

I have family from Okinawa.My father was stationed there.My cousins are half-Black.I know that some old skool Japanese heads will literally stare out Black people.But for the last 30 years the hiphop cultural revolution has dramatically reduced the virulence of Japanese racism.

I have family from all over Africa.Going to the hot zones again because I have (relatively few) family in the Sudan and Darfur too.Heard about the ethnic cleansing.My position based upon the combination of what my family in Africa and my grandmother told me (my grandmother is the daughter of sharecroppers)? Hatred is stupid and horrible period.However,racially charged hatred is more virulently applicable because it's much easier to identify one's intended victim if their badge is their skin,therefore the horrors that horrible minds invent are more easily consistently and virulently applied to those intended victims that they can easily spot.Quite a few European Jews escaped the horror of Nazi Germany or at least delayed those horrors by changing their names to names of Germanic origin.Black people can't willy nilly get our chameleon on and change our color...and many of us wouldn't,even in the face of certain oppression for being Black.

And lastly I don't badmouth anything or anyone "just because". You conflate badmouthing my entire country with badmouthing racism racists racists practices and racist legacies.Not the same.

But I appreciate your approach.
 

yorkshirelad

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Hatred is stupid and horrible period.However,racially charged hatred is more virulently applicable because it's much easier to identify one's .
Very true! That's why you should list Louis Farrakhan, Jeremiah Wright, and the black panthers as racist hate mongers.
 

5-0 Kenpo

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Here is the thing, and get this, i DO NOT CARE if you take me seriously. Your opinion of me means less than nothing to me.That doesnt change what I am saying and that is

"all the things you complain about are either not real or not that bad"

you want BAD racism? you need to go live in "the motherland"

America isnt bad. Sure we have problems, but NOT the problems he claims, nor are the problem we have as bad as he claims, and compared to REAL racism, our problems are barely worth mentioning.

Thats debatable of course, and differences of opinion are fine, but there is no comparison between not being able to get a cab in New York City and ethnic cleansing in Darfur.

One is a real problem, the other is just annoying.

It is about perspective. I do not think it is ludicrous to be thankful for the good things we have here that others are not so lucky to have. It's like my mom used to say when i didnt like what she made for dinner "there are plenty of kids that dont have ANYTHING for dinner or a mom to fix it, so try being gratefull for once"

Or do you disagree with that too?

and NO, not saying we cant improve our lot in life here, of course we need to, but that IS happening, no rational honest person can deny it.

And I have not insulted you, so please stop with the personal attacks.

You know what, your right. I suppose that Martin Luther King Jr. really didn't have a complaint. After all, it was only the occassional lynching, Black church burning, or lack of access to education that occurred. I mean, it's not like they were in slavery anymore, killed at the whim of their Master. Things were alot better during his time, so what did he have to complain about. What's a police K-9 gnawing on your leg compared with getting working as a slave. :rolleyes:
 

Twin Fist

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that was legitimate AND it was 50 years ago, I refuse to feel bad about something that happened before i was born. And it is a pretty weak shot from someone who's arguments are generally very strong, even when i dont agree with them
 

5-0 Kenpo

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that was legitimate AND it was 50 years ago, I refuse to feel bad about something that happened before i was born. And it is a pretty weak shot from someone who's arguments are generally very strong, even when i dont agree with them

Actually, the argument is very strong. Consider that your position, as stated in a logical premise is this:

If racism in time/place "A" is worse than in time/place "B", then those in "B" have no place to complain about racism.

I then substituted "A" for slavery in the U.S., and "B" for the 1960's U.S. According to your premise, those in the 1960's have no place to complain because it was worse during slavery. Put "modern day Africa" in place of "A", and "modern day U.S." in place of "B", and we have what you said.

But now you want to substitute "legitimate" racism, as well as a specific time. Well, that completely changes your argument. But let's deal with it.

What is legitimate racism? Would legitimate racism be a Black man murdered solely because he was black? Well, we have that in the U.S. Would legitimate racism be to be denied a cab ride in NY solely on the basis of skin color? Would being denied a job solely because of skin color be legitimate racism? Obviously, I would say yes. What say you?

And, these things happen today, just as they did 50 years ago. Should we not be allowed to air our grievances regarding them? Or should we just be quiet, because after all, it's not as bad as in Africa?

Second, the issue of the time, in terms of your original position, is irrelevant to your base premise. The reason for this is because I could argue that people in Africa in the 1960's had it much worse than Blacks in America. Therefore, adding time to your argument, the people in 1960's had no right to complain because, yet again, it was worse then in Africa.

Let me give you some perspective to your argument to a subject which you have more passion for: "You should not complain about the rate of your taxes because people in many European countries are taxed at a higher rate." Or, "You should not complain about the rate of government spending in your country, because the rate of such spending is higher in many European countries." See how that works out?

Now, no one is asking you to "feel bad" about modern day racism. However, for those of us affected by it, we would ask you to understand our position. It's all well and good to say, it's better then before, or than in other places, but what does that do for the person actually being injured by said racism, especially when such actions are murder, rape, lack of access to a job (many of the things that occurred in King's era as well, don't forget).

In terms of your mother telling you to appreciate what you have when it comes to food, no one is saying that Blacks shouldn't appreciate what we have. However, that does not mean that we can't do better. Did your mother expect you to simply stay with the scraps that you were eating for the rest of your life, or did she want you to have more and better? I suspect the latter. Therefore, what is wrong with Blacks wanting all racism to end, and enlightening people to the fact that it still occurs? And we shouldn't have to minimize our concerns simply because it is worse elsewhere.

Here's the other thing, at least from my perspective. Just because I think that racism still occurs and shouldn't be ignored does not mean that there should be some new law or regulation to combat it. The great lesson of people like Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi was less about changing the law, and more about changing people's hearts. If you changed people's hearts the would change the law, which was a by-product of what was in their hearts.

Another thing is that, again from my perspective, just because I state that an action is racism, that does not mean that I believe that every institution or white person has racism inside of it/them. But some do, and some more then others, and for various reasons. I should not have to ignore it simply because it is, theoretically, mostly okay.
 

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Another thing is that, again from my perspective, just because I state that an action is racism, that does not mean that I believe that every institution or white person has racism inside of it/them. But some do, and some more then others, and for various reasons. I should not have to ignore it simply because it is, theoretically, mostly okay.
I agree with the above statement, all that is except the fact that you concentrate on white people. Take a look at the Nation of Islam, an organization that is quite openly; anti-semetic, anti-white and anti-America, surely you see this organization and its members as racists and bigots. Obama's former pastor, who presided at his wedding and the christening of his daughters is a huge fan of Farrakhan and has in the past praised him and given him an award. He has also made anti-semetic, anti-white and anti-American comments, so you have agree that he too is a racist and a bigot.

Racism and bigotry is not just the realm of white people, but it seems that some people here believe that to be the case.
 

Twin Fist

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funny, i cant recall the dogs being turned loose on people here lately or the fire hoses....or lynchings (not counting the ISOLATED case of James Byrd)....the Klan is a hollow shell of what it was then, even the fbi admitts this.....no, the things MLK rightly protested against are pretty much gone.

fact of the matter is, a white is how many times more likely to be the victim of a crime BY a black person than a black person is to be a victim of crime by a white.

Thats just a fact.


here

now

thats all i am concerned with because it is all i can change, and sorry, i just dont see it as all that bad.

i think people should, by and large, stfu and make thier own lives better. You are a cop, you KNOW WHY blacks cant get a cab. I ran a fast food joint 6 years ago, and I am can tell you why a black kid might not get a job, but you wont like the answer. You want to change people's hearts? I can tell you how to do that too, but again, you wont like the answer.

I tire of this. You see the world the way you see it, and i dont see it that way AT ALL .Niether of us is right or wrong, since this is all opinion, but i would hope that at the end of the day, or when the **** hits the fan, all of this silly bs wont matter.
 

5-0 Kenpo

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I agree with the above statement, all that is except the fact that you concentrate on white people. Take a look at the Nation of Islam, an organization that is quite openly; anti-semetic, anti-white and anti-America, surely you see this organization and its members as racists and bigots. Obama's former pastor, who presided at his wedding and the christening of his daughters is a huge fan of Farrakhan and has in the past praised him and given him an award. He has also made anti-semetic, anti-white and anti-American comments, so you have agree that he too is a racist and a bigot.

Racism and bigotry is not just the realm of white people, but it seems that some people here believe that to be the case.

Certainly. I just held it to the White racism against Blacks due to the position that TF was arguing. I do no deny Black racism against Whites, and would argue that position as well. Being of mixed heritage (White / Black) I have had more direct attacks about being White from Black people then I have had of being Black from White people.
 

5-0 Kenpo

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funny, i cant recall the dogs being turned loose on people here lately or the fire hoses....or lynchings (not counting the ISOLATED case of James Byrd)....the Klan is a hollow shell of what it was then, even the fbi admitts this.....no, the things MLK rightly protested against are pretty much gone.

So you think.

fact of the matter is, a white is how many times more likely to be the victim of a crime BY a black person than a black person is to be a victim of crime by a white.

Thats just a fact.

This is funny. You ask a question, and somehow your question is a fact, even though you made no actual statement of fact.

thats all i am concerned with because it is all i can change, and sorry, i just dont see it as all that bad.

Here's the thing...

As of 2008, a statistics report which surveyed all persons arrested for offending, stated that of the crimes surveyed for which the identity of the offender could be determined, 77.2 percent of all persons arrested were white or Hispanic, 20.3 percent of people arrested for offending were black or black and Hispanic; and the remaining 2.4 percent were of other races.


A 2008 FBI Uniform Crime Report on rape and sexual-based crime published by the United States Department of Justice stated that of the crimes surveyed, whites represented 65.2% of persons arrested for rape, blacks represented 32.2%, with American Indians and Asians ranking just above 1%.

These statistics show that you have from two to three time more chance of being victimized by a White person in a crime then you do a Black person.

So, tire all you want, Whites commit more crime in the United States by sometimes three times as much as Blacks. Here is another statistic that you won't like: In 2005, 2.7% of African Americans became the victim of a violent crime, compared to 2.0% of Whites. So despite your saying that Whites have more reason to be worried about being victimized by Blacks, the fact of the matter is that 93% of the U.S population is never victimized with violent crimes. So what is it that justifies actually worrying about Blacks committing a crime against you? Or, consequently, your argument regarding Blacks "embracing a criminal culture?"

So, quite frankly, White people worrying about being victimized by Black people should, in your words, stfu, and go about treating everyone as individuals, and not make baseless assumptions, as you have made about Blacks. Especially considering that Blacks, typically, don't commit crimes against Whites because they are White.

i think people should, by and large, stfu and make thier own lives better. You are a cop, you KNOW WHY blacks cant get a cab. I ran a fast food joint 6 years ago, and I am can tell you why a black kid might not get a job, but you wont like the answer. You want to change people's hearts? I can tell you how to do that too, but again, you wont like the answer.

Yes, Black people may not be able to get a cab because of the assumption that the driver makes about the person based on skin color alone. And some of these people are the same people who get pissed when, if they are Middle Eastern, of being assumed to be a terrorist.

How about this, I will just go ahead, since you are White, and assume that you are an ignorant, racist, self-centered person due to the color of your skin (and certainly not because of your actual beliefs about minorities :rolleyes:). And, I will also assume that, upon seeing me, you will want to hurt me because I am a half-breed mongrel.

And the reason I won't like the answer is because you are, instead of treating people as individuals (and ignoring the fact that most people in America, including most Blacks) don't commit crime, choose to make decisions about people regarding the mere color of their skin.

How absolutely ignorant.

I tire of this. You see the world the way you see it, and i dont see it that way AT ALL .Niether of us is right or wrong, since this is all opinion, but i would hope that at the end of the day, or when the **** hits the fan, all of this silly bs wont matter.

No, one of you is wrong. You are stating facts which are easily refutable. I will just say that your opinion is your opinion, right or wrong.
 

Twin Fist

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I am tired of your insults when i have not insulted you at all. What might have been an interesting exchange is now nothing, because of your rudeness and inability to be civil. And that is comming from ME.

Good day.
 

Twin Fist

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and this will be the LAST thing i ever say to you Slick, all those stats MIGHT mean something, IF the populations were the same size, but they are not

so 13% of the population is comitting ALMOST as many crimes as another 60% of the population is.

you just proved my case for me.

Thanks,

good day
 

5-0 Kenpo

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and this will be the LAST thing i ever say to you Slick, all those stats MIGHT mean something, IF the populations were the same size, but they are not

so 13% of the population is comitting ALMOST as many crimes as another 60% of the population is.

you just proved my case for me.

Thanks,

good day

Actually, my stats said no such thing. My stats show that 70% of all violent crime is committed by Whites.

And though you (weakly) put me on ignore, the 2007 crime stats show that Whites commited about 46% of all racially motivated crimes in the U.S.

And yet, you still have more of a chance of being victimized by a White person then you do a Black person. Yet Whites apparently are should be paranoid about being hurt by a Black.

Interesting analysis...

The fact of the matter is that you have no idea what you are talking about....
 
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