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Well, I think your "opinion" is perfectly in line with the Scripture as I have read it. Good post.
Is (any) alcohol drinking a sin?
- Thread starter Carol
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Well, I think your "opinion" is perfectly in line with the Scripture as I have read it. Good post.
Wait a minute... did we ever go out drinking? Because that sounds WAAAAY to familiar
Possibly...Hell some nights we bypassed the whole looking for females cause it took away from our drinking time..LOL
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Yup.... we went out drinking.
Arizona Angel
Master Black Belt
I can't believe nobody said it! "Wine is actually good for your health in moderation."
I agree with eveyone else; not a sin but leads to it if miss used.
I agree with eveyone else; not a sin but leads to it if miss used.
heretic888
Senior Master
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"All the laws and the prophets hang on those two" or something like that
Actually, it was Rabbi Hillel and his answer was in response to a person asking him what the Law is. After giving the love your neighbors and love God answer, he concluded "all the rest is commentary".
The Gospel authors, of course, decided to copy him about 80 years later.
I had written a long dissertation regarding the nature of Christianity and Alcohol, citing many verses in the King James...but sinc eI timed out, I'll give the short version.
Drunkenness, yes. Drinking...For me, no. For anyone else, I'm not you.
Merry Christmas
Drunkenness, yes. Drinking...For me, no. For anyone else, I'm not you.
Merry Christmas
Absolutely wine is good for you! (in moderation) Heck my group of Doc's are always telling me this.
This is exactly it. It's not the consumption of alcohol that is considered a sin, but the actions that can result as a consequence of over indulgence.
Well, I remember the scene in the classic move "7 Samurai", where one of the so called samurai comes in falling down drunk and is (comically) unable to defend himself against the first "test". The later explanation is that no _real_ samurai would be injured by the ambush because a real samurai would never allow himself to become so drunk as to be inattentive to a sneak attack.
At least that's where I see the MA application of this thread going...
When I drink, I'm always trying to keep track of the erosion of my senses and the possible ramifications thereof. If I can't keep my awareness or defenses then I definitely have to go home.
..st
At least that's where I see the MA application of this thread going...
When I drink, I'm always trying to keep track of the erosion of my senses and the possible ramifications thereof. If I can't keep my awareness or defenses then I definitely have to go home.
..st
Ben Franklin is reported to have said "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
Drinking (or eating or anything else) to excess is sinful according to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. It's a form of gluttony, and the idea (as I understand it) is that if you give in to the excess, you're putting that something in front of God.
Personally, I've never understood the religions that try to claim that Biblical era Jews, Arabs, Romans, or whoevers didn't drink wine. For the faiths that as a matter of discipline or submission to Divine Law don't drink alcohol -- it's a very different question. It's just the folk (mostly fundamentist Christians) that try to make claims that don't hold up to some basic reasoning about grape juice that I disagree with. I figure that some short time after Og The Caveman discovered that he could squeeze juice from grapes and save it in something, he discovered that if he let that juice sit around for a while, it got much more "interesting" in character...
Drinking (or eating or anything else) to excess is sinful according to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. It's a form of gluttony, and the idea (as I understand it) is that if you give in to the excess, you're putting that something in front of God.
Personally, I've never understood the religions that try to claim that Biblical era Jews, Arabs, Romans, or whoevers didn't drink wine. For the faiths that as a matter of discipline or submission to Divine Law don't drink alcohol -- it's a very different question. It's just the folk (mostly fundamentist Christians) that try to make claims that don't hold up to some basic reasoning about grape juice that I disagree with. I figure that some short time after Og The Caveman discovered that he could squeeze juice from grapes and save it in something, he discovered that if he let that juice sit around for a while, it got much more "interesting" in character...
Let's try this again...
:rules:
Drunkeness makes Remembrance impossible. Am I correct in assuming that you're a Muslim? If so, Wa Salaam Aleykum!
Drunkeness is also strictly forbidden to Jews except on Purim which is a Feast of Misrule in many ways. The use of alcohol is permitted in moderation. Each drink must be accompanied by a special prayer so that even in this activity one remembers to thank the Almighty for the gift He has bestowed on us by creating wine. Wine is required for certain religious occasions. Four cups are drunk over the course of the Passover meal. It is used in the weekly Kiddush ceremony and a few other times.
My knowledge of Muslim jurisprudence is much weaker than it should be. My wife is much more knowledgeable there. But if memory serves there was quite a bit of discussion as to whether drinks other than wine were permitted under the principle of "Do not permit that which We have forbidden or forbid that which We have permitted" and whether the use of alcohol in quantities that did not cause intoxication was permitted. Most authorities (I believe) decided that it was safer not to press one's luck and that Allah doesn't look kindly on loopholes in any case
The Prophet Mohammed (saws) drank date and date palm wine in moderate quantities. In parts of Egypt and other areas in the Arab world the trees are going extinct as people chop them down to get a hallal buzz from the fermented sap. I've made date wine as an experiment. If that's the only way to get high I'd rather abstain.:barf:
:rules:
Drunkeness makes Remembrance impossible. Am I correct in assuming that you're a Muslim? If so, Wa Salaam Aleykum!
Drunkeness is also strictly forbidden to Jews except on Purim which is a Feast of Misrule in many ways. The use of alcohol is permitted in moderation. Each drink must be accompanied by a special prayer so that even in this activity one remembers to thank the Almighty for the gift He has bestowed on us by creating wine. Wine is required for certain religious occasions. Four cups are drunk over the course of the Passover meal. It is used in the weekly Kiddush ceremony and a few other times.
My knowledge of Muslim jurisprudence is much weaker than it should be. My wife is much more knowledgeable there. But if memory serves there was quite a bit of discussion as to whether drinks other than wine were permitted under the principle of "Do not permit that which We have forbidden or forbid that which We have permitted" and whether the use of alcohol in quantities that did not cause intoxication was permitted. Most authorities (I believe) decided that it was safer not to press one's luck and that Allah doesn't look kindly on loopholes in any case
The Prophet Mohammed (saws) drank date and date palm wine in moderate quantities. In parts of Egypt and other areas in the Arab world the trees are going extinct as people chop them down to get a hallal buzz from the fermented sap. I've made date wine as an experiment. If that's the only way to get high I'd rather abstain.:barf:
RED
Blue Belt
Im writing this from a Christian point of view because that is my experience. Im not sure of what faith you are. But you can substitute.
Read your book be it the Bible or whatever. Develop your conviction. When you talk to Jesus / God and he / she asks you why you drink, what are you going to say? My preacher / leader said it was OK? Or would you rather say the Bible says this thats why?
Just some thoughts: Jesus made the wine at the wedding. Where there people over indulging in the wine? Where did the original wine go if not? Did Jesus make the wine, start his ministry before his time and get a bunch of guests drunk simply because he wanted to obey his mother? (One of the top ten sins as I like to call them in jest) Which sin was worse causing people to get drunk or disobeying his mother? Sin is sin so is Jesus in a paradox here? Im just throwing stuff out there for thought on this. Not necessarily my convictions. Paul drank wine daily (a lot more than me) for health reasons but wrote that we should not live in drunkenness. Ill catch a buzz every now and then but Im not living in a perpetual drunk, is that wrong? Psalms has many references wine brings cheer to the heart Beer is a brawler The Bible is an unchanging foundation for convictions. Preachers, emotions, consciences, philosophies, theologies and everything else can and will change sometimes as much as the weather.
Now for the proverbial can of worms: Jesus called the religious leaders of the day white washed tombs. Why? Because they followed the traditions and laws without the heart to back it up. Modern religion is the same. There seems to be too much cliché talk and not enough emotional level conversation. I.e. look at how radical we are we dont drink, but the congregation hardly knows each other they go their separate ways for the week with little to no daily (emotional) contact with one another. Please understand Im not pointing the figure at your beliefs personally. Im generalizing modern religions by the observations Ive made visiting multiple churches. Read your book for your convictions.
As for me I love beer. Not much into the wine scene. And from what I have read my conscience is good with it.
Read your book be it the Bible or whatever. Develop your conviction. When you talk to Jesus / God and he / she asks you why you drink, what are you going to say? My preacher / leader said it was OK? Or would you rather say the Bible says this thats why?
Just some thoughts: Jesus made the wine at the wedding. Where there people over indulging in the wine? Where did the original wine go if not? Did Jesus make the wine, start his ministry before his time and get a bunch of guests drunk simply because he wanted to obey his mother? (One of the top ten sins as I like to call them in jest) Which sin was worse causing people to get drunk or disobeying his mother? Sin is sin so is Jesus in a paradox here? Im just throwing stuff out there for thought on this. Not necessarily my convictions. Paul drank wine daily (a lot more than me) for health reasons but wrote that we should not live in drunkenness. Ill catch a buzz every now and then but Im not living in a perpetual drunk, is that wrong? Psalms has many references wine brings cheer to the heart Beer is a brawler The Bible is an unchanging foundation for convictions. Preachers, emotions, consciences, philosophies, theologies and everything else can and will change sometimes as much as the weather.
Now for the proverbial can of worms: Jesus called the religious leaders of the day white washed tombs. Why? Because they followed the traditions and laws without the heart to back it up. Modern religion is the same. There seems to be too much cliché talk and not enough emotional level conversation. I.e. look at how radical we are we dont drink, but the congregation hardly knows each other they go their separate ways for the week with little to no daily (emotional) contact with one another. Please understand Im not pointing the figure at your beliefs personally. Im generalizing modern religions by the observations Ive made visiting multiple churches. Read your book for your convictions.
As for me I love beer. Not much into the wine scene. And from what I have read my conscience is good with it.
German Coach
Orange Belt
During the christmas holiday I as a catholic have to drink much more then usually, because otherwise I have no reason to go to confession
....... Just kidding.....To be honest, I enjow my wine and beer as long as it doesn´t hurt my health.
Agreed! A most excellent post. Thank you Red for sharing that.
Thoughts; You are correct quoting Paul the apostle in that "we should not live in drunkeness." Alcohol itself is not sinful, the consumption of alcohol isn't sinful. Being under the influence of alcohol isn't sinful. What we DO while under the influence could be sinful... depending upon what it is in defiance of God's laws. What those laws are, are clearly written in (literal) stone and further defined in the Gospel(s) of Jesus Christ.
We see ads in the media today encouraging moderation in relation to alcoholic products. The (1 a day) moderation of alcohol has been suggested by the AMA as a benefit to health (ironically). We should listen to them.
Sin is what we believe (our) God defines it. We each will have to deal with the consensquences of our sins. We will each have to answer for our own sinful behaviors. How we act and how we think and how we feel determines whether or not we sin. Being under the influence of a mind-altering drug such as alcohol (and it IS a drug... base components of alcohol itself is ether and water) will cause us to do things that we may/may-not do under normal circumstances.
We should be careful in the consumption. We should be in control (especially as Martial Artists) of ourselves at all times.
:asian:
ArmorOfGod
Senior Master
Here is how I look at this: in one of Paul's many letters, he writes that if a Christian feels that he would become closer to Christ (Jesus) by being a vegetarian, than other Christians should let him be and not say anything, as long as what he is doing does not directly go against scripture. The vegetarian thing is just an example that Paul used, but it fits quiet niceley with the orginal post of avoiding alchohol to get closer to Christ. I disagree, but it does not clash with scripture, so I would be sinning to say that Carol is wrong.
Read Romans 14:1-4 to see those scriptures.
Those versus helped me as Christian, as they showed me that Christianity is not a "one size fits all" kind of thing. That section reminds me not to judge others who are doing what they feel is right in God's eyes.
AoG
Read Romans 14:1-4 to see those scriptures.
Those versus helped me as Christian, as they showed me that Christianity is not a "one size fits all" kind of thing. That section reminds me not to judge others who are doing what they feel is right in God's eyes.
AoG
Some churches have that blanket rule of not drinking for the weak among us. Sometimes we're not the people who should be deciding whether we can handle our alcohol (our families and friends might be better judges unless they're our drinking buddies too!). So rather than get into how much drinking is acceptable and who can handle their grog it's sometimes easier to just avoid it altogether. I think it tastes gross anyway! :barf:
During the christmas holiday I as a catholic have to drink much more then usually, because otherwise I have no reason to go to confession
You are not alone Coach..
Greman Coach said:
I tried a coulple of bottles of real German beer once ..They say I tried to sleep under a table...LOL
German Coach
Orange Belt
The best German beers are from monasteries. 1000 years of brewing experience without commercial pressure :drinkbeer
