I'm gonna do some Ninjutsu today

[Dylan9d]

In order to understand a Japanese art and people this article may apply.
www.nakasendoway.com/omote-ura-public-and-private-faces/

Watching say Katori Shinto Ryu, practicing for the first time and being in depth in the Ryu all have different levels of presentation. The public and first timer won't see the true characteristics in depth.

If you are resisting on someone trying to learn a technique it makes the student have a hard time learning the fundamentals of the technique. Say you are doing a knife drill and you are learning the sequence you would go slow, maybe count. After you have got the sequence down then speed it up maybe add a slight variation. For sure would not go full speed. Now for the student not being to apply the technique against a resisting person, possible he sucked but what might have been he was learning the technique.

Anyway I think the dojo was not a good fit for you.

The difference is, that the guy I was paired up with, is a black belt. So his understanding of that technique should be fine and it wasn't his first time.

@gpseymour Let me repeat myself once more, the teacher asked us all to attack our partner as we were in a street situation. Black belt......street situation.....

Now I have never been overly impressed by a "black belt" other than certain expcetional people, but my opinion is still, if you wear that belt you better be sure as hell that can follow through.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The difference is, that the guy I was paired up with, is a black belt. So his understanding of that technique should be fine and it wasn't his first time.

@gpseymour Let me repeat myself once more, the teacher asked us all to attack our partner as we were in a street situation. Black belt......street situation.....

Now I have never been overly impressed by a "black belt" other than certain expcetional people, but my opinion is still, if you wear that belt you better be sure as hell that can follow through.

I understand the confusion. I'm giving you some context. There's a reason I don't give that sort of instruction when working on a specific technique. That he did (and then your partner couldn't do the technique) makes me wonder if they are accustomed to making it work. IMO, that's a poor approach. A technique either is right for a situation (and should be reasonably easy to get to) or it isn't (in which case you do something different). He should have explained the kind of attack that technique is meant to work on. Drop Bear posted a video in post #15 that illustrates this. The standing shoulder throw he starts the session with is highly effective (we have a similar one). But it only works when you use it appropriately. By not giving you good instruction (and you not having the information to figure it out on your own), you gave an attack that made that technique the wrong choice. IMO, a black belt should have been able to tell you that and explain why it would be the wrong choice, and maybe point out one alternative he could have used, given that attack. Your assumption that he couldn't "follow through", rather than that he was constrained by the technique they were supposed to do, shows a lack of understanding.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The difference is, that the guy I was paired up with, is a black belt. So his understanding of that technique should be fine and it wasn't his first time.

@gpseymour Let me repeat myself once more, the teacher asked us all to attack our partner as we were in a street situation. Black belt......street situation.....

Now I have never been overly impressed by a "black belt" other than certain expcetional people, but my opinion is still, if you wear that belt you better be sure as hell that can follow through.

If the instructor just told you to grab your partner "as if you were in a street situation" rather than giving you the specific attack the counter was meant to work against, that indicates a problem in his teaching skills, his understanding of the technique, or both.

You might hope that your black belt training partner would have enough experience to recognize that you weren't feeding him the right attack for the defense in question and switch to a more appropriate technique. However black belt is not a very advanced rank in the Bujinkan. I don't know how it is in the BBD. Either way, he should have called the instructor over to ask for help and the instructor should have been able to correct his technique (if you were feeding the correct attack) or else correct your attack to the appropriate one for that defense and also show the correct defense to the attack you were using. When I teach that technique, I show the 2-3 most common methods for an untrained standing choke and the appropriate defense against each. If I have time, I may also show a more technical approach to applying the standing choke which shuts down those defenses.

This is all based on the supposition that you weren't intentionally just trying to mess him up and keep him from practicing the technique. If you have reasonable skills and are bigger and stronger than your training partner and are put in a highly advantageous position and know in advance exactly what technique your partner is going to try applying to you, then you should be able to shut it down and prevent him from executing that particular move no matter what the technique is, unless he is a lot better than you. You may be setting yourself up for some different technique, but you should be able to stop the specific move which was indicated beforehand. Generally the only way you get to tell someone ahead of time exactly what you are going to do and execute that exact move despite their best efforts to stop you are if you are much more skilled than them, have much greater physical attributes, or get to start out in a much superior position.

I'll assume you weren't trying to be a bad training partner in that sense and turn it into a sparring session where you got to start with a dominant position. If you were just trying to follow the teachers instructions and grab your partner's neck the way you were told and your partner wasn't able to make the technique work and the instructor didn't come by to fix the situation, then that would seem to indicate a lower level of instruction than you should be looking for.

 

[oaktree]

The difference is, that the guy I was paired up with, is a black belt. So his understanding of that technique should be fine and it wasn't his first time.

@gpseymour Let me repeat myself once more, the teacher asked us all to attack our partner as we were in a street situation. Black belt......street situation.....

Now I have never been overly impressed by a "black belt" other than certain expcetional people, but my opinion is still, if you wear that belt you better be sure as hell that can follow through.

Well maybe he just sucks then! Personally I would be Leary of anyone calling their dojo Brian dojo.

 

[drop bear]

The difference is, that the guy I was paired up with, is a black belt. So his understanding of that technique should be fine and it wasn't his first time.

@gpseymour Let me repeat myself once more, the teacher asked us all to attack our partner as we were in a street situation. Black belt......street situation.....

Now I have never been overly impressed by a "black belt" other than certain expcetional people, but my opinion is still, if you wear that belt you better be sure as hell that can follow through.

No fair enough if they ask you to do it. Then do it. If he can't get out it is on him.

There is a jujitsu meme for just this situation.

"Hey coach how do you escape a rear naked choke? "

"you messed up a long time ago. "

 

[dunc]

Home

It's all in Dutch though, and I'm not sure if they are a good representation of the label "ninjutsu" or anything associated with that.

With that being said, next up Pukulan Madura Kombinasi

I wouldn't judge the Bujinkan by the BBD, which is essentially a different art (& I speak from direct experience)

Probably there are some legit Bujinkan Dojos in the area so may try them before dismissing the style

 

[Dylan9d]

I wouldn't judge the Bujinkan by the BBD, which is essentially a different art (& I speak from direct experience)

Probably there are some legit Bujinkan Dojos in the area so may try them before dismissing the style

Like I said, they are probably not a good representation for the traditional Bujinkan or anything associated with that.

 

[drop bear]

If the instructor just told you to grab your partner "as if you were in a street situation" rather than giving you the specific attack the counter was meant to work against, that indicates a problem in his teaching skills, his understanding of the technique, or both.

You might hope that your black belt training partner would have enough experience to recognize that you weren't feeding him the right attack for the defense in question and switch to a more appropriate technique. However black belt is not a very advanced rank in the Bujinkan. I don't know how it is in the BBD. Either way, he should have called the instructor over to ask for help and the instructor should have been able to correct his technique (if you were feeding the correct attack) or else correct your attack to the appropriate one for that defense and also show the correct defense to the attack you were using. When I teach that technique, I show the 2-3 most common methods for an untrained standing choke and the appropriate defense against each. If I have time, I may also show a more technical approach to applying the standing choke which shuts down those defenses.

This is all based on the supposition that you weren't intentionally just trying to mess him up and keep him from practicing the technique. If you have reasonable skills and are bigger and stronger than your training partner and are put in a highly advantageous position and know in advance exactly what technique your partner is going to try applying to you, then you should be able to shut it down and prevent him from executing that particular move no matter what the technique is, unless he is a lot better than you. You may be setting yourself up for some different technique, but you should be able to stop the specific move which was indicated beforehand. Generally the only way you get to tell someone ahead of time exactly what you are going to do and execute that exact move despite their best efforts to stop you are if you are much more skilled than them, have much greater physical attributes, or get to start out in a much superior position.

I'll assume you weren't trying to be a bad training partner in that sense and turn it into a sparring session where you got to start with a dominant position. If you were just trying to follow the teachers instructions and grab your partner's neck the way you were told and your partner wasn't able to make the technique work and the instructor didn't come by to fix the situation, then that would seem to indicate a lower level of instruction than you should be looking for.

Because at the end of the day if someone let me sink that choke they are probably not getting out.

It is pretty far to the advantage of the choker.

 

[dunc]

FWIW that technique isn't used against a full RNC

If a RNC is on then you need a different response I think

 

[drop bear]

FWIW that technique isn't used against a full RNC

If a RNC is on then you need a different response I think

Even a decent standing sleeper is a pig to escape out of. There really isn't a technique that will get you out.

It is more of a case of a technique that will give you a fighting chance.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Even a decent standing sleeper is a pig to escape out of. There really isn't a technique that will get you out.

It is more of a case of a technique that will give you a fighting chance.

For any strong choke like that, the best defense is the same: stay the hell out of it. If someone gets you in one, they beat you before the choke.