How similar is Hapkido to aikido?

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by Maint, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Maint

    Maint Yellow Belt

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    So after much research and thinking...tomorrow night is going to be my first hapkido class. If you've seen other posts you know I've asked numerous ?'s about if I'm able to do certain arts. I'm just curious as to how similar hapkido is to aikido. I've heard it's based on daito aikijutsu (sp) like aikido. The school I'm attending, the GM was taught by Park Song Il who was a student of Ji Han Jae. So is hapkido sort of like aikido with TKD mixed in? Also how much ground fighting is done in hapkido?
     
  2. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    I have never studied Aikido so I can't really talk about it other than what I have seen online and from discussions with a former coworker who had studied Aikido.

    I seems there are different styles/schools of Hapkido, and I don't know how all differ. Individual teachers may wish to make changes in their own schools for their own reasons. I can only tell you about the Hapkido I studied, and how I perceive it differs from the Aikido I have seen (mostly online) and what my coworker talked about. My impression is that Aikido is a grappling art that is useful for self defense. It seems they will normally deflect an attacker in some way in most cases. Their techniques and mentality are that they don't intentionally intend to hurt an opponent, just protect themselves. They do realize some techniques will cause pain and/or damage, and if so, of course the attacker brought that on themselves. But they just want an attacker to get tired and go home. Aikido practitioners please correct me if I am wrong.

    In the Hapkido I studied, it was again a grappling art to be used to defend oneself. We are very defense orientated, responding to attacks, not normally going on the attack. But we are taught how to use defenses aggressively, as a last set of techniques, before BB tests. However, it seemed our responses were more aimed at taking away an opponent's will and/or ability to fight. For example, if every time you do, or attempt to put a hand on me, you experience pain from my technique, you will begin to lose the desire (will) to continue to try fighting/hurting me. If my technique dislocates your knee, you have lost ability to fight. You need two legs to stand up and fight.

    In the Hapkido I studied, we did learn ground techniques. But they were taught between 1st and 2nd Dan. You need to be proficient in certain things to make ground techniques work. I think any martial art teaches certain things at a certain point for those reasons.

    I hope you enjoy your Hapkido experience. Let us know how it goes. In any martial art, I would encourage patience on your part. Learn as you are taught, and don't try to jump ahead to what someone else is learning. You may not yet be ready, and that may be why you aren't being taught it yet.
     
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  3. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master Black Belt

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    Like oftheherd says, what HKD is like is going to vary by school and organization. I haven't done Aikido, but my understanding is that Aikido has a different philosophy but a lot of the same joint locks. Standing grapple is the primary focus of HKD, but it incorporates striking too. And the striking I've done in HKD has different focus from what I've done in TKD - less focus on flashy high/jump kicks and agile footwork and more focus on practical "dirty fighting" stuff like elbow strike to the face or side kick to the knee.

    As for ground fighting, I think a lot of HKD programs are doing some ground fighting these days as a response to the popularity of BJJ and the potential for an attacker to try some MMA ground fighting moves on you. To give you some idea, at our school we do practice ground sparring, and spend about 10-15 minutes on it about every other class. It's there, but not a major focus.
     
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  4. Spinedoc

    Spinedoc Purple Belt

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    Having done both. albeit, more Aikido than Hapkido, I would say that while they are similar. Aikido is more nuanced. More subtle. Aikido is more circular and flowing, while Hapkido seems to be a bit more linear, which I suspect is because of the TKD influence. As far as not harming your attacker, Aikido has a singular goal, to end the fight as quickly as possible while not doing any permanent damage or killing your opponent. IE; that does not mean that you won't hurt them, but rather, that you are not trying to disable, maim, or kill. Anything else is really fair game.

    Aikido seems to be much more focused on center, and using small motions, shifts to unbalance and blend with an opponent, while HKD seems to block more than blend, and to apply locks and throws in a much more a-b-c linear fashion. There are similarities of course, but as others on here have mentioned…Aikido is like advanced algebra compared to many other martial arts. It also takes a lot longer to be good at.

    The owner of the dojo we rent space from is a 6th dan TKD, and 4th dan HKD. He studied Aikido back in the 70's. He once stated about Aikido that is was an effective martial art, but hard for people to conceptualize and "it just takes so long to get good at it".

    Just for a different perspective.

    Mike
     
  5. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    Having done (while dual training in youth) about 20 years in hapkido, and again later on down the road about another 20 years in aikido (again, dual training with other stuff as I'm not 100), I can tell you that... pretty much, there really are a limited number of ways to twist a wrist (at the core, there's only 3), but there are probably many thousands of ways to effectuate the twists (i'm using the word twist here interchangeably with lock).

    Most everyone knows kotegaeshi, in one form or other, but at the very core the partner/target/opponent/bad guy/gal is experiencing the same anatomic issue. As stated above, the aikido-way, usually, is to use the kotegaeshi to get control of the person, and keep them from being in a position to do bad things to you. Really simplifying this of course.

    Hapkido, on the other hand when I was doing it, we'd wind up that kotegaeshi (not the Korean term, y'all), use it to manipulate ther person and then strike into the openings -- either the opening on the limb or to the body/head, combining serious striking (and a bit street/dirty) witht he joint manipulations.

    Hapkido is one hell of an effective Street-do, once some expertise is learned, and a bit of restraint is lost. Aikido is harder to learn, but allows you to continue to feel good about yourself AND others, if that is important to you. I found it to be more and more important to me as I got older.
     
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  6. MAfreak

    MAfreak Purple Belt

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    aikido is focused on wrist-locks, some throwing and sword fighting.
    hapkido is focused on everything: standup like karate, throwing and some ground fighting like judo and also some traditional weapons like staff and sword. i know more effective styles (in close combat) but no more comprehensive styles!
     
  7. skribs

    skribs 2nd Black Belt

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    I asked my hapkido master what the difference was between hapkido and aikido, he said the only difference is that one uses the Korean pronunciation for the first syllable and the other uses the Japanese pronunciation. But they're written the same and are the same art.

    Different schools might have different philosophies and approaches, but overall the arts are very similar.
     
  8. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Interesting in that many years ago when I was still rather new to Hapkido, I mentioned to my GM that I figured Hapkido and Aikido were similar. He told me in no uncertain words (but kindly nonetheless), that Hapkido was not related to Aikido. As I progressed in my studies of Hapkido, and based on my pretty near no knowledge of Aikido, I would agree that they are very different. They have a lot of similar moves, but in Aikido, practitioners seem more interested in keeping themselves from injury, and don't intentionally try to hurt of disable an opponent. In the Hapkido I studied, we normally would intend to hurt and/or disable an opponent. We sort of figure we didn't want to fight to begin with, and don't want to do it again. We learn sword defenses, but more for defense against the sword or large stick. As I understand it, Aikido tries to make more sword-like moves in the defense they practice.

    An Aikidoist can correct me where I am wrong.
     
  9. skribs

    skribs 2nd Black Belt

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    Is that a difference in art or a difference in school?

    My understanding is that a lot of Korean martial arts are based heavily on Japanese martial arts. Taekwondo, while having some basis in traditional Korean arts, also has roots in Karate learned from the Japanese. I assumed Hapkido followed a similar vein, that it was based on Aikido learned from the Japanese.
     
  10. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Since they share claimed origins, of course they're related. But there's that whole big anti-Japanese bias that Koreans of a certain age have...

    As I see it, the big difference is that Hapkido (as it's practiced today) utilizes a lot of kicks incorporated from TKD and is perhaps more aggressive than Aikido.
     
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  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I would say Hapkido is not very similar to most of Aikido. Certainly not to the mainstream of Ueshiba's Aikido. There's more similarity to Nihon Goshin Aikido (my primary art), so a closer relationship through a Daito-ryu lens than through an Aikido lens. The Hapkido I've seen used different striking approaches (closer to TKD, whereas ours are closer to Shotokan Karate), but they carry enough similarities. So, if we compare Hapkido to (Ueshiba's) Aikido, they are more different. If we compare Hapkido to (the class of arts) Aikido, there are similarities.
     
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  12. DanT

    DanT Black Belt

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    Aikido:
    -Wrist Locks (75%)
    -Throws (20%)
    -Other (5%)

    Hapkido:
    -Striking (40%)
    -Wrist Locks (20%)
    -Throws (20%)
    -Groundfighting (10%)
    -Other (10%)

    These are just general guidelines and each can vary +- 20% depending on the school.
     
  13. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Related in the way they use techniques overall was how I meant that. Probably should have said it different. Well, considering the apparent age of Hapkido versus TKD, I would guess they both probably acquired their kicks from the same places. They may have both been looking for different kicks or looking for more Korean kicks. Who knows now; as there is always the belief older is more to be respected. But I know in the TKD I studied, we didn't have as many kicks as I learned in the Hapkido I studied, at least up to 1st Dan. They may have been taught later. We never learned a hook kick in TKD, but Jhoon Goo Rhee certainly used one in a class one day to teach a big headed student some manners. We all sat there stunned and tried to figure out how he did it. :wideyed: :D
     
  14. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    I think probably TKD and Hapkido both have schools that have changed a great deal since the 50s, but retain the name TKD and Hapkido.
     
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  15. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    I know very little about Aikido so I can't comment on the percentages you show for them. But the percentages for Hapkido would not agree with the Hapkido I learned. Again, as I said above, many schools have probably changed or revised what they teach.
     
  16. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    I agree many Koreans, and not all of them WWII vintage, aren't fond of the Japanese.

    I also agree that Hapkido is more aggressive. That's a good way to put it.
     
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  17. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Tae Kwon Do without learning a hook kick? You’d learn that before you even got your yellow belt in our system.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. skribs

    skribs 2nd Black Belt

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    Hook kick is a bit later in my system, but I would expect between the two for Hapkido to have less kicks.

    Our hapkido program is probably 80% wrist locks, but it's complementary to our Taekwondo so the strikes are less. I'm pretty sure if our school was strictly Hapkido we'd have more strikes thrown in.
     
  19. DanT

    DanT Black Belt

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    Interesting. If you were to break down your schools Hapkido curriculum, what percentages would you give?
     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Just to toss it in for comparison, I'll share what percentages might be at my school. I say "might", because the focus shifts month to month.

    Joint locks 20%
    Throws 40%
    Strikes 20%
    Ground work 10%
    Other 10%

    One note - there's a big overlap in the first two categories, as some of our throws include locks, so there are applications that are throws without locks and applications that are locks without throws. And "ground work" in my curriculum includes fighting from the ground when the other guy hasn't joined you there yet. My students might rightly argue I spend much more than 20% on strikes (that was almost all we did in November).
     

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