How many of you BJJ guys train hip throws (Ogashi)?

Discussion in 'Grappling / Brazilian Ju Jitsu / Wrestling' started by Alan Smithee, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    I'm curious since they do it here for the blue belt grading. Gracies schools are known to train takedowns as well. It's perfectly legal in tournaments but not very often used.

    Is it part of every BJJ curriculum?


     
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    We do it for BJJ and MMA it isn't a huge part because people tend to mess it up and get choked.

    But it is definitely there.
     
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  3. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    When you say it isn't a huge part of a BJJ, you mean what exactly? Once a week? Once a month? Once every 6 month?
     
  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Once a month Mabye. There would be two guys in our gym who ever actually uses it.

    (I did it once in a comp but otherwise not so much)
     
  5. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    Wow! Yet you still grade in it like that school I linked to? I could easily miss those classes by coincidence.
     
  6. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    I was assured by the instructor that they do takedowns every week. I'm guessing it's not that one:)
     
  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yep. And so could become a black belt without ever having a functional hip throw.

    No big loss. There are plenty of techniques that you may never become functional at.
     
  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    They might.

    In all honesty double leg single leg are more practical. Sort of.
     
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  9. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    Yeah even in elite Judo where hip tosses are associated with that martial art, they are not that common
     
  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    My coach recently wrestled a brown believe who just sat on his **** the whole round.
     
  11. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    Well, I have hip thrown someone in a fight much larger than me without every having trained grappling. I did not think it was hard, yet a lot of people claim it is... I just used his momentum, it wasn't any brute force behind it.

    I'm not saying it to brag, trying to make a point. How can you suck at it?:S
     
  12. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Did the dude you fought know how to resist a hip throw? It's a different thing doing it against an untrained person rushing at you, then a judoka or mma fighter (or boxer even).
     
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  13. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    He was in for it the second time he got up but I still flipped him again. I'm a good athlete so I'm not gonna pretend as if I'm your average joe but I only did what I had seen in movies.

    Maybe Judo is a bit of an innate thing..
     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I tried it on people who could fight back.
     
  15. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    He cut me with an elbow when I clinched him. But he still got flipped.
     
  16. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    How did you move in? Did you spin your body?

    The traditional hip throw has the following issues.

    - You need to spin your body and give your back to your opponent.
    - Since your opponent's both legs are free, it's easy for him to step in front of you and escape.
    - Your opponent can crack your elbow joint on your waist holding arm.
    - Your opponent can press down your leg behind your knee.
    - Your opponent can bounce you off with his belly.
    - Your opponent's free hand can pull your head backward.
    - ...

    In order to solve those issues, the "entering strategy" is very important.
     
  17. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    In Gracie JJ hip throws are fundamental, and are trained a lot. However, the reason you don't see them used often is because there's more effective takedowns for competition and MMA like Guard pulling and DLTs.
     
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  18. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    Double leg takedown run the risk of getting caught in a guillotine and lose on the spot. I would say the vast majority seem to pull guard in BJJ, which some argue isn't even a takedown technique.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  19. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    And hip throws open you up for back takes.

    Every throw or takedown has its share of risks. However if you look at MMA or BJJ, there's a reason you're mostly seeing DLTs and Guard Pulls. It's because they're high percentage takedowns with lower downsides than other throws or takedowns.
     
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  20. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    Anything can be messed up, just as anything can work if all the pieces just fall into position.

    Drop's referring to people who mess it up and end up getting choked is probably mostly due to the person trying to throw not having any kuzushi on their opponent (they didn't break the balance). If you don't take your opponent's balance as you enter for Ogoshi (it's two O letters, there's no "A" in Ogoshi by the way) then you are just giving them your back. If you did that, you probably don't have good control of their arm, either,a nd you just put it halfway into a rear naked. Almost like giving them an early Christmas present.

    People who are entering (poorly) for outside foot/leg techniques often just "walk onto" Ogoshi, used as a counter. Same basic problem of no kuzushi causes that, too.

    Step No. 1 to all throwing techniques, break balance. Note (just as in your example) you dont even have to do anything to get their balance, they may just hand it over.
     
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