How many and differances in Shaolin Kempo

[John Bishop]

I think I know him and he would be an 8th under Lou Angel in his "own Goju system," Jissen-Kai Goju-Ryu. He definately is not ranked 10th by The late Peter Urban or Hanshi Angel.
The other ranks I know of a few but none for Kenpo and not 47. Is he in the miliary at moffet field? If we are are talking about the same individual, his most current rank, 8th, can be verified on the NCMA site within the newsletters which show all promotions.

Also Hanshi does not issue Goju-USA certs. Thats not his org.

Probably not the same guy. Last I heard of him, he was in Desert Hot Springs, Ca., and no longer involved in the martial arts. He was originally from Woodbridge, New Jersey, moved to Palm Springs, Ca. in the early 80s.
The original certificates he showed me were for 10th Degree. I may still have the letter from Mr. Angel verifing the certificates "he issued" for 10th degree promotion and recognition.
And I still have copies of the certificates issued on:12-29-89, 12-12-89, 12-20-89. They are signed by "Lou Angel, Hanshi", and a "David Box Jr., Director, 8th dan".

 

[James Kovacich]

Probably not the same guy. Last I heard of him, he was in Desert Hot Springs, Ca., and no longer involved in the martial arts. He was originally from Woodbridge, New Jersey, moved to Palm Springs, Ca. in the early 80s.
The original certificates he showed me were for 10th Degree. I may still have the letter from Mr. Angel verifing the certificates "he issued" for 10th degree promotion and recognition.
And I still have copies of the certificates issued on:12-29-89, 12-12-89, 12-20-89. They are signed by "Lou Angel, Hanshi", and a "David Box Jr., Director, 8th dan".

I would be guessing but he must of beleived the Urban cert. to be legit. He did have a connection to Ed Parker I don't think he could of been fooled by that and 1989 was the year he started the NCMA.

Thats all I have except Hanshi is honorable and does not make much money from tests and such.

 

[Karazenpo]

Hi Todd, I just read your post. Thank you for being respectful in your questions, I appreciate that. To be honest, I have seen and heard so much on ranking over the years, whether it be celebrities, family members, friends, favors, money, students, self, sex!!!!,lol, and every which way but loose and I'm talking about ALL systems, "ALL", American systems, Okinawan, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Filipino, etc., no one is exempt, there are controversies and questions and not just in the 60's, the 70's, 80's, 90's or the 21st century but all the way back to when rank began. It's always been this way so my answer is: I stay out of it all together now and don't pass judgement on any promotions unless maybe they begin to borderline on the complete absurd!,lol. My answer to people is simple: Ranking is subjective, no matter what criteria or curriculum a system or instructor has to try to be somewhat objective, the bottom line is, it's still opinion, you'll never take the human element out of it. It's like arguing politics and religion. How do you know if your rank is legit? Very simple answer. You have to ask yourself two questions and two questions only: Are you comfortable wearing your rank and are you comfortable in how you got it? That's it. Take care, respectfully Prof. Joe

 

[Mariachi Joe]

Prof. Shuras you seem to be held in high esteem here, I've read some of your other posts and have a question for you. I have been with USSD for about a year now and am ranked a blue belt. I like the Shaolin Kempo style I'm learning and I respect my instructor he pushes me during class and does not let me half *** no matter how tired I may be, but some of USSD's claims and practices bother me and when I ask him about it he just tends to get evasive and/or change the subject. I was wondering what your opinion of Charles Mattera, Steve Demasco, Russel Cliegg ( he runs USSD in Utah and was a Villari black belt and left with Mattera and Demasco ) and USSD are?

 

[dianhsuhe]

Joe- You really should get a cup of coffee and do a search for USSD... There is a LOT of info. about their org. on these boards. I came from that system in the early 90's. At that time I enjoyed it compared to the TKD I studied previously at the local YMCA, and I had an excellent teacher but the commercialism was a joke. Looking back I am embarassed to even admit I studied there...

SO your instructor trains you hard? Is that the greatest benefit you are enjoying? It would not be difficult to find a teacher who both trains you hard, AND addresses your questions about their given system.

I know you were asking prof. Shuras but I felt compelled to chime in-

Keep us posted- Also, feel free to ask on here the questions that your instructor does not seem to want to answer.

 

[almost a ghost]

..... some of USSD's claims and practices bother me and when I ask him about it he just tends to get evasive and/or change the subject.

MJ, I had the same issues. Good questions with no good answers. From my personal experience, I think you may be happier taking what you like about shaolin kempo and exploring other schools and styles. Also, like previous stated, alot of those answers you are looking for can be found all over the internet.

Mike

 

[shaolin ninja 4]

Prof. Shuras you seem to be held in high esteem here, I've read some of your other posts and have a question for you. I have been with USSD for about a year now and am ranked a blue belt. I like the Shaolin Kempo style I'm learning and I respect my instructor he pushes me during class and does not let me half *** no matter how tired I may be, but some of USSD's claims and practices bother me and when I ask him about it he just tends to get evasive and/or change the subject. I was wondering what your opinion of Charles Mattera, Steve Demasco, Russel Cliegg ( he runs USSD in Utah and was a Villari black belt and left with Mattera and Demasco ) and USSD are?

What question wont your instructor answer? Is it about how they came from fred villari?

 

[Mariachi Joe]

It's not so much that my instructor wont answer, it's that he does not seem to know. He know who Fred Villari is but he does not know why Mattera won't even mention him. He also has no idea where Mattera got his 9th dan, or why we are discouraged from entering open tournaments. As far as the money goes his answer is that unlike other studios they are flexible with schedules ( a necessity for me ) which is hard to find.

 

[Mariachi Joe]

I actually have been reading a lot of posts concerning USSD and Fred Villari. As far as Villari goes I've gathered that he is the real deal as a martial artist, but his organization leaves a lot to be desired, and the same goes for USSD. Steve Demasco seems to be a respected martial artist, but USSD seems questionable. That's why I was wondering is I could get information on Russell Clieg, he runs ussd where in Utah. As far as I can gather he was a Villari black belt who jumped ship with Mattera. He is now a 5th dan and my instructor describes him as a very powerful fighter who is a lot faster than he looks.

 

[shaolin ninja 4]

It's not so much that my instructor wont answer, it's that he does not seem to know. He know who Fred Villari is but he does not know why Mattera won't even mention him. He also has no idea where Mattera got his 9th dan, or why we are discouraged from entering open tournaments. As far as the money goes his answer is that unlike other studios they are flexible with schedules ( a necessity for me ) which is hard to find.

What rank is your instructor? I am asking because most quit with in a few years.
Does your school have multiple group class times?

As for his 9th I am sure mattera gave himself it.

I think mattera wont mention him because if everyone of his instructors knew they could own their dojo 100% for $40,000 he'd have no instructors with him.

 

[shaolin ninja 4]

I actually have been reading a lot of posts concerning USSD and Fred Villari. As far as Villari goes I've gathered that he is the real deal as a martial artist, but his organization leaves a lot to be desired, and the same goes for USSD. Steve Demasco seems to be a respected martial artist, but USSD seems questionable. That's why I was wondering is I could get information on Russell Clieg, he runs ussd where in Utah. As far as I can gather he was a Villari black belt who jumped ship with Mattera. He is now a 5th dan and my instructor describes him as a very powerful fighter who is a lot faster than he looks.

Both organizations have bad rep's but I used to work for ussd so I think that one is the worst. Alot of greedy master's in my opinion.

I don't know a lot about Russell Clieg. Met him a few times. Kept mostly to himself.

 

[Mariachi Joe]

I did an animal test with Master Clieg, and after reading Prof. Shuras' description of Villari's old balck belt tests I can see where Master Clieg gets his teaching style. After being pushed physically for several hours the test ended with me having to fight through 3 sensei's to put a blade of grass on the other end of the dojo. It was a great experience though.

 

[Mariachi Joe]

Quick question, is there a big difference between what Villari and USSD teach up to shodan, and is it very different than what is taught in Cerio Kenpo?

 

[almost a ghost]

I did an animal test with Master Clieg, and after reading Prof. Shuras' description of Villari's old balck belt tests I can see where Master Clieg gets his teaching style. After being pushed physically for several hours the test ended with me having to fight through 3 sensei's to put a blade of grass on the other end of the dojo. It was a great experience though.

An animal test? Never heard of that one. Could you get a little more discriptive of what was happened?

 

[shaolin ninja 4]

Quick question, is there a big difference between what Villari and USSD teach up to shodan, and is it very different than what is taught in Cerio Kenpo?

You only 1-5 kata, 1-5 pinon with villari.

Ussd you need kata 6.

 

[almost a ghost]

You only 1-5 kata, 1-5 pinon with villari.

Ussd you need kata 6.

I remember USSD elimated Kata 6 along with circle of the tiger, or they just elimated circle of the tiger and everybody just stopped teaching kata 6 because everybody despised the form, especially me. Even had a hand full of higher ups tell me it was a thrown together form for tournaments and what not.

Then again, every month at least 5 of my techniques changed because Master So-and-so said that this way is better. No wait! This way is better... ah, now my head hurts.

 

[Mariachi Joe]

There are five animal test, one for each of the five animals of Shaolin Tiger, Crane, Snake, Dragon, and Leopard/Panther. Each one tests you on the attributes of the animal. The crane test is all about balance and agility, the tiger test is about tenacity and strength. I've only done tiger and crane, I'm doing the snake test this coming Saturday.

 

[almost a ghost]

There are five animal test, one for each of the five animals of Shaolin Tiger, Crane, Snake, Dragon, and Leopard/Panther. Each one tests you on the attributes of the animal. The crane test is all about balance and agility, the tiger test is about tenacity and strength. I've only done tiger and crane, I'm doing the snake test this coming Saturday.

What do you get when you past these tests? Do you have to learn specific animal techniques, sets or forms? Do these tests cost money?

 

[Mariachi Joe]

Like everything in USSD yeah they cost money. After you pass each test you get a certificate saying you passed, and after you pass all five you get your name on a plaque.

 

[Mariachi Joe]

There is a Martial Arts Festival in Disneyland in February of 06 that I'm planning on going to. On the form it asks what style of ma I practice and I'm not sure what to put down, Karate, American Kenpo, or Kajukenbo cause I'm pretty sure it's not traditional Chinese Kung Fu like my instructor thinks. Any ideas