How Fast Bruce Lee Progressed In The Martial Arts

Discussion in 'JKD / Jeet Kune Do' started by PhotonGuy, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. mrt2

    mrt2 Purple Belt

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    An interesting way to spin something. The answer is, because Bruce Lee was an icon and superstar. But that does not really answer the question posed by OP.
     
  2. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    Forget all the hype, hoopla, and everything else associated with Bruce Lee for a second. Why do I think he was a legit fighter? Far too many people who trained with him who were no doubt legit said he was as solid a MAist as they come. Guys like Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace, Joe Lewis just to name a few. If those guys say someone’s legit, I certainly take their word for it.

    Who he influenced and what impact he had on MA is all subject to debate. The guys I listed’s word isn’t IMO.

    As to why Lee never competed, only one person can truly answer that question. And he hasn’t been available for comment since July 20, 1973.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
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  3. Starjumper7

    Starjumper7 Yellow Belt

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    Well, more than one actually. I learned more or less the same stuff Bruce did, from the same 'family'.

    Bruce was trained to end a fight in one second in a deadly manner, the origins of his art comes from a group of Chinese assassins. It is extremely effective.

    There are several reasons that adepts in the deadliest of arts do not compete. As follows:

    In competition the players are protected by rules, if most of the effective stuff you know is against the rules then you can't play your game, you have to play the Lumbering Lumox game, where you just stand there and trade punches.

    In MMA the players are required to face each other with aggression. In the assassin's arts you either really try to get away, or you pretend to try to get away, this is an extremely important point. There are many tricks which can not be used in the ring.

    By break rules I mean things like blinding, + elbow, neck, and back breaking. The rules favor big giant Lumoxes with so many muscles you can't even break their neck, the only chance you would have is to use eye jabs, against the rules.

    So, in a 'real' serious art you pretend that you want to get away, act cowardly and groveling, put your hands together prayer fashion (boxer's stance) and beg them to not hit you. If they attack you anyway, in spite of all that, they are telling you they want to die, and in fact it is perfectly legal to kill someone in that situation in the US, as long as you have spectators. There are also certain tricks to use on the audience to make them think that someone attacked you while you were trying to back away, then they slipped and fell down dead. Helps if it goes to court, plus when you blind someone they can't identify you in a police lineup.

    Bruce Lee could do all that, absolutely no question, that was actually the foundation of his art. But ending a fight in one second while barely moving does not play well in the movies.
     
  4. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Bruce Lee had a short amount of time learning wing chun. He didn't even learn the full system so he didn't have a load "secret assassin" training. End a fight in seconds? Then how come his only known fight against Wong Jack man was meant to have taken 3 minutes and that's even the ones who are on lees side of the story who say that.

    Bruce lees base training was a little bit of wing chun and some stuff he picked up off his mates. Mostly he was interested in boxing a western style not a ninja assassin art.
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't really buy the premise that there are a bunch of deadly moves that can't be adapted to something that works in competition like MMA. There are moves that aren't good for that context, so are a waste of time if you're planning for that (or most other) competition, but there really isn't much available in the way of truly deadly stuff...at least that's very reliable. Most ways you can kill a person have an analog for the octagon, since most are strikes or strangles/chokes. Unless you're referring to weapons.
     
  6. Starjumper7

    Starjumper7 Yellow Belt

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    Bruce was a student of Mr. Yueng for eight years, Mr. Yueng was a Red Boat Wing Chun master, Mr. Yueng was Bruce's main teacher.

    It is true that Bruce was entranced by the idea of being able to knock people out, and he dedicated some quality time to practicing hitting hard. Knocking people out was also a 'safe' way for Bruce to fight, safe for the other. Bruce was challenged to many fights by stunt men in China, perhaps you haven't heard of those.
     
  7. Starjumper7

    Starjumper7 Yellow Belt

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    Well, I can understand that you're not buying it, that is the common reaction. There are a lot of details that make the big difference, and the devil's in the details. In a way you are right, and the important parts are in the tricks that sets up the attacker to fail. Notice in my post above the part I said was very important point. In addition, this is a direct statement from the master when asked why he doesn't compete: "We don't even want them to know what we do, so that they can't develop defenses against it".

    Big bad MMA fighters have come to try to punch one of my teachers and the results are invariably the same. One second after they try to punch they are on the floor in a contorted heap, and they have NO idea how they got there. Most of them get up and announce that it was some kind of accident or a trick, and prance out the door with their noses in the air and their dignity intact. In fact it was a trick, it's all tricks designed to foil the natural instincts of trained fighters.

    Here's a couple of other statements from the masters. "If you don't end the fight in one second you are doing it wrong", and "Never get hit". We may surmise the results of a contest in which one of them never gets hit = )

    It is a big challenge to explain such things to people who haven't experienced it, but I accept the challenge. I think it would be best to start a thread titled something like 'sporting arts vs deadly arts'. Usually that starts a **** storm on most forums, but it looks like the people here are quite mature and common sensical. Something you find in real martial artists.
     
  8. Starjumper7

    Starjumper7 Yellow Belt

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    Here's one point. If you knock someone out then everyone knows who the winner is. On the other hand, frequently you can take an attacker up to the point of 'finishing' them, but not actually do the finishing move, so you stop, so then the other guy taps you and says, "see I got you". In fact they don't know that they are already 'dead'. In this way, even the 'dead' ones don't get it unless you show them and explain it.
     
  9. Starjumper7

    Starjumper7 Yellow Belt

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    Oh, and to speak to the title of the opening post. The reason that Bruce progressed so fast in the martial arts is for several reasons. One is he was living with one of the most advanced kung fu masters anywhere, who was also a genius. Two is he practiced very much, getting up at four in the morning and practicing for three hours on his own before getting ready to go to the University, which was in addition to his training time. Three is that Bruce is what is called a dragon in China, a very good looking, intelligent, and talented kid, who was also very dedicated, and very motivated by his mentor, Mr. Yueng.
     
  10. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    I'm sorry but simply...you're wrong. Lee didn't train with anyone for 8 years he simply never had the time. None of his friends nor his wife ever mentioned him spending 8 years with anyone. He trained wing chun for a short period with ip man before he got kicked out then he moved to the states and worked as a dishwasher before starting school and teaching kids at school to make cash. I'm not calling you a liar because maybe you genuinely believe this but frankly your story doesn't add up with any of the other accounts of lees life thatve been stated by his family and his close friends at the time soooo...I know who I believe more on the subject.

    His base style was wing chun but after his fight with Wong Jack man he turned against wing chun and studied with judo guys, with boxers and karate champions he spent a period living with ed Parker and sharing ideas with him and with James Lee. He read a lot of books on combat and made his own style. Whether or not he trained with this yeung guy or not he certainly didn't train with him for 8 years as he was constantly moving around the states and later to and from Hong Kong and this guy certainly wasn't his mentor or any of that. Perhaps he trained a few weeks with him and as is often the case it's blown up into more than it was. By people trying to live off lees name. But Bruce Lee never had a formal teacher apart from ip man. He worked with loads of guys but in more of a training partner compactly than a teacher
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  11. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Umm....what?...serjouosy not trying to be smart I genuinely haven't a clue what you're saying here
     
  12. Starjumper7

    Starjumper7 Yellow Belt

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    That's the standard story yes. What you don't know about it could fill a book, and I wrote that book.
     
  13. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    So you know more about it than his family?....okay..
     
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  14. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I just want to make sure its clear-it is NOT legal to kill someone for trying to punch you. Don't expect that to fly in court.
     
  15. HongKongFooey.Returns

    HongKongFooey.Returns White Belt

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    Dude it was totally true. I saw him train with the Frank Dux and Tanaka Clan to fight in the Kumite, and then as a ghost he trained a kid named Jason to fight Frank Dux after he defected to the Soviet Union.
     
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  16. Starjumper7

    Starjumper7 Yellow Belt

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    I AM in his family, his kung fu family, I'm one of his kung fu brothers.

    He had two families, his kung fu family, and his family via marriage. Mr. Yueng told Bruce to NOT tell others who his teacher was, do you think he may have obeyed his master? His wife did know Mr. Yueng, by the way. These things are also fairly well known, among the older crowd in Seattle's Chinatown, and in part of the local tai chi and wing chun communities, who Mr. Yueng was. He was highly respected as being a very good man and much loved. Jesse Glover, Bruce's most advanced student, knew all about Mr. Yueng.

    Mr. Yueng also told me to not write about him till after he died. The reasons for that are honorable and reasonable. In fact I wasn't going to write about him anyway, but did because I needed some retirement income. Otherwise it would still all be hidden. The book really isn't so much about Bruce, it's about Mr. Yueng, who was an amazingly powerful chi kung master.

    However I though some people might find it interesting that Bruce's teacher was a powerful master of a very rare kind of system called: "Taoist Spiritual Path of the Warrior", which at it's higher level is called the "Path of the Wizard". In China it is technically correct to label a very advanced chi kung master as a wizard.

    I also know how Bruce died, and it isn't quite as innocent as the general public has been led to believe.
     
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  17. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    No you're not. You're just not sorry. You're story is very convinent and frankly it all sounds a load of rubbish to me. You're not his brother and you're not his family and you don't know how he died. Jesse glover huh? another one who's dead so can't back up your stories. How convinent. I've met people who trained with Lee. I spent a while with Dan innosanto and he was Bruce lees top student and best friend and we discussed Lee a lot and he never mentioned this guy. So basically you're trying to make money off lies? I'm not saying anything about this yeung guy but he certainly wasn't Bruce lees teacher for 8 years. I don't know if you're making this stuff up yourself or you're just regurgitating nonsense that you've been told but it is nonsense I'd bet anything on that fact. You're little story doesn't match anything that his REAL family and REAL friends have said
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  18. Starjumper7

    Starjumper7 Yellow Belt

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    Well, whatever you do, don't research it. Feel confident that you were there and you know it all.

    There are some people who will no doubt be interested in reading more about Bruce's real roots and the little kung fu family in Seattle that he was part of. Some people did research it and they went to the source for instruction, and they got the basics that Bruce hid when he taught JKD. Mr. Yueng accepted very few people as kung fu students, but one or two of them turned out to be better than Bruce.
     
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  19. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    I wasn't there but I take the word of people who were there over some guy going around pretending to be Bruce lees brother. I have researched it not your nonsense but I've been reading stuff on Lee for years and met a number of his students and again doesn't match any of your tales
     
  20. Starjumper7

    Starjumper7 Yellow Belt

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    Keep researching ...123
     

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