Holloway Wins

Discussion in 'MMA' started by TMA17, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. TMA17

    TMA17 Black Belt

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    Striking beats top level BJJ Ortega.
     
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  2. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    You can't really say that on either side because Holloway trains Bjj and Ortega trains striking. It's not 93 where it's only style.
     
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  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    It's one fighter beating another on the night, next time it could be different.
     
  4. TMA17

    TMA17 Black Belt

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    I agree I shouldn’t have said it that way. I am surprised Ortega didn’t try and go the the ground more. ?
     
  5. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Haven't seen the fight as up to my eyes with various things at the moment, (who said there'd be more time when you retired?) but if your opponent is particularly better at one thing you train to stop him using it so I imagine that will be what happened either that or Ortega got his tactics wrong.
     
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  6. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Holloway beat him up.
     
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  7. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Ortega is a good fighter no doubt but he's also been lucky. A lot of his fights he's been losing before he rallied and got the finish e.g his fight with guida. I mean he's obviously tough and got skill but his fight iq isn't great he needs to work on it
     
  8. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Well his tactics are to strike with his opponent until the easy takedown is there or his opponent takes him down then his grappling takes over.

    With Holloway being a much better striker I could see that tactic being problematic.
     
  9. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Ehh. Sort of. That was a kickboxing match, and Ortega had max in trouble a couple of times. He just couldn't keep the same pace.

    On the other foot, Nelson vs Oliviera was also (probably more so) a striker vs grappler scenario that went the other way.

    (on a side note I found that fight more interesting based on the rather unusual way Gunner used TKD footwork to get takedowns.)

    LINK TO FIGHTS
     
  10. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    11 takedown attempts isnt a small number.

    But neither is 307 significant strikes.
     
  11. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    At the end of the day there's no such think as striker vs grappler anymore this is Mma the strikers can grapple and the grapplers can strike. A jiu jitsu guy winning doesn't make jiu jitsu and a boxer winning doesn't make boxing better it's whoever gets their game off first and frankly luckiest. There's a lot of luck to fighting e.g when Ortega landed that big punch it was luck on holloways side he wasn't knocked out
     
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  12. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    When Holloway landed his big punches was luck on Ortega’s side that he didn’t get knocked out?
     
  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    As I said, I haven't seen the fight but often a certain amount of luck is always present in a fight.

    Anyone else had to scroll through pages of unintelligible spam posts to find this thread and the other genuine ones? it's the third time this week.
     
  14. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Pretty much yeah. Those same punches knocked out Aldo. The guys tough but that's not something you can train
     
  15. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    No, but toughness levels are part of the package, just like skill.
     
  16. TMA17

    TMA17 Black Belt

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    I need to watch the entire fight. I’ve only seen clips.

    I’d like to know why Ortega had zero success with taking him down. He’s a supposedly one of the top BJJ players in the sport. Are his takedowns weak and more basic or is Holloways TD defense that good?

    I expected this fight to go to the ground. Look how a guy like Khabib always gets the guy down. That is a given. Is this a weak spot often talked about in Ortega’s BJJ game or BJJ in general? If you can’t go to the ground and your number one attribute is BJJ, you better have great striking or you’re not going to do well.
     
  17. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Ortega's striking is no joke. However, there is a reason Holloway has been the champ as long as he has.
     
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  18. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    You're overthinking this way to much. Simply Holloway was better that night and he won that's it. In another fight maybe Ortega would win its fighting not a scientific experiment. Also khabib doesn't always get people down he's failed on takedowns before. Plus different styles. Fighting really isn't complicated. One guy wins one guy loses it doesn't mean the loser sucks or the winners amazing it just means that one person had a 50% chance of winning
     
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  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    This is correct, the best one on the night wins ( unless the fighters allow the judges to decide and then the result can be a toss of the coin!)
    I was watching Biathlon yesterday, love it, the chap who was the world champion last year and is in the lead at the moment had a bad day and actually didn't finish as he was having a shocker, he just couldn't do it on the day. Next race he'll be on form again and will likely be the world champ this year, it's just how competitive sports win, even Usain Bolt lost races. No different in fights, there's many factors that affect how you perform on the day, good competitors try to minimise the risk but there will always be that one that means you could lose.
     
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  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't think fights are won and lost on random chance.
     
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