Had a Seizure in Jiu Jitsu Class Today

[kuniggety]

Also, I am usually very good under pressure. I've played football (soccer) for my whole life and am usually playing my best in the 90th minute in close games. I know BJJ is slightly different to football but the point is I've never really cracked under pressure until now. Even in my other BJJ fights, I've never panicked as I knew I had some control on the outcome of the fight by tapping. But in this instance, I didn't have that and he had regulation of my breathing which led me getting a little tunnel vision towards the end there. The point is, I think this was a one time incident where I lost my calm, I don't think tunnel vision is something I have to worry that much about in the future unless this type of choking is a common thing in BJJ.

It's not just about cracking under pressure as a whole like in a sport. You're going to be constantly putting yourself into new and uncomfortable positions. The first time you get a guy (or I guess gal) who massively outweighs you in north/south position and smothers your face with the girth of their chest or stomachs, it will suck. You really can not breath then. You'll have your face sat on. You'll have your gi pulled over your face which just make breathing harder. If it's just a one time thing for you, then great, but don't expect it to just be only this one time.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The thing is, work and life gets in the way of that. Also, that would mean prioritising BJJ over my other hobbies which I have a bigger investment in. I could try for 2 times a week, but 4 times is excessive.

I wasn't suggesting 4 times a week, that was a personal decision and if you're planning on doing it long-term will more than likely lead to burnout. I think 2 times a week is fine for most MA's as long as you're not competing (1 time a week can help, but you will progress much slower than you want). Since your wife is pregnant don't focus on it too much as you'll still progress once a week, it will just be slow.

 

[james0012]

It's not just about cracking under pressure as a whole like in a sport. You're going to be constantly putting yourself into new and uncomfortable positions. The first time you get a guy (or I guess gal) who massively outweighs you in north/south position and smothers your face with the girth of their chest or stomachs, it will suck. You really can not breath then. You'll have your face sat on. You'll have your gi pulled over your face which just make breathing harder. If it's just a one time thing for you, then great, but don't expect it to just be only this one time.

The only reason why I was panicking so much was because I was unable to tap despite reaching my pain limit. I expect that I will be put in worse moves but I will not panic as I can just tap out.

I'm not even sure it would be classified as tunnel vision. I was trying hard to tap out for a while, it was only when I realised that I couldn't when I started panicking. Either way, it's unlikely to happen again.

 

[JP3]

Escapes don't have to be all that explosive to work against someone that size. A small shift gains a lot of leverage, and then you can control the rest smoothly.

Completely agree, but at the risk of sounding uppity &/or condescending to James, which I'm not trying to be, maybe his skill level isn't there yet. You could do it, most likely I could, lots of skilled people know how to work the situation, but keep in mind, James let a 12 y/o get both hands around his neck, tight enough that he was unable to talk. That happened to you on the ground recently?

As I said, james, that sounds crappy, which I don't intend. Mistakes get made on the mat all the time, by everyone, me included. I'll bet ya one thing, I bet you're moving earlier next time that anyone has their hands approaching your neck, eh? That is a VERY good lesson to internalize.

 

[JP3]

The only reason why I was panicking so much was because I was unable to tap despite reaching my pain limit. I expect that I will be put in worse moves but I will not panic as I can just tap out.

I'm not even sure it would be classified as tunnel vision. I was trying hard to tap out for a while, it was only when I realised that I couldn't when I started panicking. Either way, it's unlikely to happen again.

Not being able to tap out can show up in a lot of ways... the most common is that the technique being used on you takes place before you have the time you need to realize that it is too late. Less common, and somewhat what happened in your O/P was when the limb you reflexively use to tap is held/constrained... or as in this case, ignored. That's a risk of working with beginners as well, some are very talented naturally, some are just crazy lucky, and either of them can put a hurtin' on ya.

But, I think you're right, for a group of reasons, I bet this doesn't, or things anything like it, ever happen again.

 

[james0012]

Completely agree, but at the risk of sounding uppity &/or condescending to James, which I'm not trying to be, maybe his skill level isn't there yet..

Oh don't worry about that, it's obvious that you're speaking with good intentions. I haven't run into that kind of attitude and the gym handled it well.

You could do it, most likely I could, lots of skilled people know how to work the situation, but keep in mind, James let a 12 y/o get both hands around his neck, tight enough that he was unable to talk. That happened to you on the ground recently?

As I said, james, that sounds crappy, which I don't intend. Mistakes get made on the mat all the time, by everyone, me included. I'll bet ya one thing, I bet you're moving earlier next time that anyone has their hands approaching your neck, eh? That is a VERY good lesson to internalize.

There was a lack of skill in the build up to the choke, I was definitely sparring complacently. And from then on, he won fair and squareish. I still feel like the continous gagging should have been good enough indication to let go but I'm not going to blame an 11 year old for something he wasn't taught.

Less common, and somewhat what happened in your O/P was when the limb you reflexively use to tap is held/constrained... or as in this case, ignored.

It wouldn't be fair to say ignored. He just didn't realise that I was tapping with my feet. He probably didn't realise that my hands were constrained.

But, I think you're right, for a group of reasons, I bet this doesn't, or things anything like it, ever happen again.

You see, 2 months in and I'm already breaking new grounds.

 

[JP3]

James, in Muay Thai class, in the dim annals of my history, they guy who was sort of the assistant instructor (guy started in Muay Thai after 20 years as a Golden Gloves boxing instructor... who does that?) had a saying: Anybody can get caught. Don't get uppity. It's true. All one has to do to understand that is to go back and review surprising victories in combat sports over the last 40 years to find shining examples of, "That guy go SO lucky ..."

On the 11 year old not knowing what gagging sounds are.... Man you're making me laugh at anecdotal stuff I can write about which is only consisten in thread because it's funny - to anyone who wasn't IN it -- I am wondering if that kid wasn't scared brownypants to be rolling with a guy your size int he first place. Then, somehow (to him) he finds himself in a position of advantage and his whole world focuses down into keeping that grip and if he can do anything, make it tighter (a different form of tunnel vision, eh...).

Well... probably freak out took place while you were out for those few seconds with and by everyone who was Not unconscious, and by the time you revived to ... er ... sobriety, they were relatively back to normal. I think that quite a few very good lessons were learned on that mat during that sequence. Your own, we've beaten up in this thread and your attitude shows it's stuck. Sorry about the neat-O turtleneck bruising.... really I am. Closest I can compare is I was passing my instructor's guard once, and was working my way from side control into a mount/front choke (baseball grip) and he was blocking my elbow with his elbow and I kept coming, pressure increasing, pressure increasing and then all of the sudden our arms slipped off of each other and Wham! All that potential energy converted in a fraction of a second into kinetic energy whih accelerated... and ended up with his elbow being blocked by my face. My suborbital arch (cheekbone) as it happens. Distinct cracking sound emanated from the impact.

I found myself on my back, him crouched over me. "You OK?" Me: "I think we broke my face."

We hadn't, the X-rays showed. But I got a nifty set of double black eyes which I sported for nearly a month before all the interesting colors faded back to normal.

Ah well... we both learned something that day, probably more than one each, once set physical, the other set... background mental I guess you'd call it.

 

[james0012]

James, in Muay Thai class, in the dim annals of my history, they guy who was sort of the assistant instructor (guy started in Muay Thai after 20 years as a Golden Gloves boxing instructor... who does that?) had a saying: Anybody can get caught. Don't get uppity. It's true. All one has to do to understand that is to go back and review surprising victories in combat sports over the last 40 years to find shining examples of, "That guy go SO lucky ..."

On the 11 year old not knowing what gagging sounds are.... Man you're making me laugh at anecdotal stuff I can write about which is only consisten in thread because it's funny - to anyone who wasn't IN it -- I am wondering if that kid wasn't scared brownypants to be rolling with a guy your size int he first place. Then, somehow (to him) he finds himself in a position of advantage and his whole world focuses down into keeping that grip and if he can do anything, make it tighter (a different form of tunnel vision, eh...).

Well... probably freak out took place while you were out for those few seconds with and by everyone who was Not unconscious, and by the time you revived to ... er ... sobriety, they were relatively back to normal. I think that quite a few very good lessons were learned on that mat during that sequence. Your own, we've beaten up in this thread and your attitude shows it's stuck. Sorry about the neat-O turtleneck bruising.... really I am. Closest I can compare is I was passing my instructor's guard once, and was working my way from side control into a mount/front choke (baseball grip) and he was blocking my elbow with his elbow and I kept coming, pressure increasing, pressure increasing and then all of the sudden our arms slipped off of each other and Wham! All that potential energy converted in a fraction of a second into kinetic energy whih accelerated... and ended up with his elbow being blocked by my face. My suborbital arch (cheekbone) as it happens. Distinct cracking sound emanated from the impact.

I found myself on my back, him crouched over me. "You OK?" Me: "I think we broke my face."

We hadn't, the X-rays showed. But I got a nifty set of double black eyes which I sported for nearly a month before all the interesting colors faded back to normal.

Ah well... we both learned something that day, probably more than one each, once set physical, the other set... background mental I guess you'd call it.

I'm not trying to be uppity. He won, perhaps if we sparred again he would win again. I'm just saying that I wasn't sparring to my full potential on the build up to the mount. That doesn't diminish his win. His groundwork was superior, he had the strength to shimmy to a higher mount and pin me and then the skill to maintain it to set up the choke irrelevant if the pin was aided by luck.

I expect the reverse tunnel vision is what happened, even though I cannot imagine why since I have the friendliest face going. I have this weird ability where any baby placed in front of me laughs and you don't understand just how many stray cats have followed me home (and occasionally kept). But yes, I could see how it would be intimidating. It's out of his comfort zone and the height difference is probably over a foot. I would have been scared at his age as well. Actually, at his age I would probably be playing dungeons and dragons, shying away from all physical activities.

There were no freak outs, my instructor was calm and handled the situation well. The kid was a little freaked out but was soon laughing about it, my dad jokes are advanced now. I told him that he should have kept the hold for longer as my sinuses were beginning to clear, which actually was kind of true lol. Sinuses were blocked all day up until then. So I guess there's something I learned, if your nose is ever blocked, forget nasal spray this is where it's at.

Black eyes suck, I had one back in my scandalous days and the amount of "what happened?" questions you get is unreal, worse than the actual injury. It's fun to play around with that (responding by telling them the first rule of fight club eg.) but I think every person I walked into asked me, some even asking twice and it got so annoying.

Well anyway thank you, I have learned things! There's a lot of experts here to do that. Good luck with your own sparring future.

 

[FriedRice]

He had two hands around my throat pretty tightly, I couldn't speak. I did try to buck but I couldn't get any head leverage and could only move my legs.

He "rape choked" you, lol.

 

[james0012]

He "rape choked" you, lol.

I thought we all agreed on The Hollywood Psycho choke?

 

[james0012]

Edit: Oops, thought I was editing my last post but turned out I created another one. I'm an idiot!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Edit: Oops, thought I was editing my last post but turned out I created another one. I'm an idiot!

I wanted to click "agree" on that, but you don't know me well enough yet to know how much I entertain myself by agreeing when people say that about themselves.

 

[james0012]

I wanted to click "agree" on that, but you don't know me well enough yet to know how much I entertain myself by agreeing when people say that about themselves.

I here you, I do that all the time as well stranger or not! Probably why I need to improve my BJJ haha.

Edit: I'm just going to leave that misspelled 'here' for irony.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

All one has to do to understand that is to go back and review surprising victories in combat sports over the last 40 years to find shining examples of, "That guy go SO lucky ..."

Renzo Gracie after knocking out Oleg Taktarov: "People say I got lucky. Maybe I did. All I know is, the more I train, the luckier I get."

 

[james0012]

Update! Sorry about reviving an old thread but I thought it would be better than just starting a new one with this one still visible.

Anyway, I went back to bjj on Saturday and decided to spar against the kid again (small class, didn't want any awkwardness).

So it was pretty even for the first half, we were both doing well but just couldn't get the sub. But in the second half, he dominated it and I wanted to get an opinion on what went wrong. I was in the mount and he was in the closed guard and he managed to turn me on my side. He just kept the guard until I tapped out, which took a long time and from then on I was quite tired.

So a lot of my stamina was gone and he got another unorthodox sub that I don't know the name of. It's the one where he's on his knees and I'm in a scissors facing towards his legs and also on my stomach. Then he got his third sub with a mounted triangle and his last with a headscissors where he was on his back and I was on my knees. So yeah, not a good second half.

So: A) How can I increase my stamina?
B) How do I get out of these moves?
C) Should I try to stay at the bottom so I don't get caught in his guards?
D) How do I spar against someone who is reliant on their leg strength? How can I take advantage of that?

Sorry for the long post, it's just disappointing to lose against beginners, especially when they're 11!

 

[Steve]

Update! Sorry about reviving an old thread but I thought it would be better than just starting a new one with this one still visible.

Anyway, I went back to bjj on Saturday and decided to spar against the kid again (small class, didn't want any awkwardness).

So it was pretty even for the first half, we were both doing well but just couldn't get the sub. But in the second half, he dominated it and I wanted to get an opinion on what went wrong. I was in the mount and he was in the closed guard and he managed to turn me on my side. He just kept the guard until I tapped out, which took a long time and from then on I was quite tired.

So a lot of my stamina was gone and he got another unorthodox sub that I don't know the name of. It's the one where he's on his knees and I'm in a scissors facing towards his legs and also on my stomach. Then he got his third sub with a mounted triangle and his last with a headscissors where he was on his back and I was on my knees. So yeah, not a good second half.

So: A) How can I increase my stamina?
B) How do I get out of these moves?
C) Should I try to stay at the bottom so I don't get caught in his guards?
D) How do I spar against someone who is reliant on their leg strength? How can I take advantage of that?

Sorry for the long post, it's just disappointing to lose against beginners, especially when they're 11!

It's really hard to visualize some of these situations you find yourself in. I don't think you've been training long enough to fully understand the positions you're in. For example, you can't have your opponent in mount while also being in his closed guard. The two are mutually exclusive.

That having been said, here are my suggestions (given how long you have been training):

So: A) How can I increase my stamina? Keep training.
B) How do I get out of these moves? Keep training, and mind your posture. When you're in someone's closed guard, and they're squeezing the life out of you, maintain good posture and then practice your techniques for making them open their guard.
C) Should I try to stay at the bottom so I don't get caught in his guards? Keep training, and it's okay to have a plan for what you'd like to try and do in sparring. However, you need to learn both.
D) How do I spar against someone who is reliant on their leg strength? How can I take advantage of that? You need to keep training. Step one, open the guard. Step two, pass the guard.

 

[james0012]

It's really hard to visualize some of these situations you find yourself in. I don't think you've been training long enough to fully understand the positions you're in. For example, you can't have your opponent in mount while also being in his closed guard. The two are mutually exclusive.

That having been said, here are my suggestions (given how long you have been training):

So: A) How can I increase my stamina? Keep training.
B) How do I get out of these moves? Keep training, and mind your posture. When you're in someone's closed guard, and they're squeezing the life out of you, maintain good posture and then practice your techniques for making them open their guard.
C) Should I try to stay at the bottom so I don't get caught in his guards? Keep training, and it's okay to have a plan for what you'd like to try and do in sparring. However, you need to learn both.
D) How do I spar against someone who is reliant on their leg strength? How can I take advantage of that? You need to keep training. Step one, open the guard. Step two, pass the guard.

Sorry, I think what I meant to say was that I was in the top position and he had the guard. And none of the techniques for opening the guard were working for which I've had successes in the past.

 

[Steve]

Sorry, I think what I meant to say was that I was in the top position and he had the guard. And none of the techniques for opening the guard were working for which I've had successes in the past.

When someone has really strong legs, you will need good technique. Here's the thing. Nothing works every time. Just keep at it.

And truly, it's no problem to mix up the words. I figured out what you meant. I really just want to make the point that you are really, really new at this. Cut yourself some slack and just go and do your best. And personally, I would recommend you keep sparring with that kid. It sounds like he's challenging you, which is a good thing.

 

[kuniggety]

The beginning of BJJ is so frustrating. You don't know your head from your *** and will get tapped over and over. Steve is right in that you just have to keep training. There's no substitute for it. I remember when I was about 6 mo in and a new while belt starts and asked when he'll start tapping people. He was a smaller guy. I said how he's in a room full of people more experienced than him and many of us, myself included, had a bit more weight to put behind our techniques. Just worry about survival. 6 months to a year down the road you'll find yourself hanging with the more experienced guys and another guy will be the new guy and they'll seem "easy" to you.

For stubborn closed guards, standing passes seem to work better for me. It takes work to get up. The key is maintaining your base. You can slide one knee between you as you drop your weight back down. The other is do a motion like you're reaching into your back pocket and then guiding or flipping their leg off of you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sorry, I think what I meant to say was that I was in the top position and he had the guard. And none of the techniques for opening the guard were working for which I've had successes in the past.

I think the term is that you were "inside his guard". Steve, am I remembering that right?