frauds

[Cryozombie]

Ken...

While I often disagree with the tone Don takes, I agree with him in this situation and I feel that the only misdirection now is yours. It's not up to me to prove your instructor is Legit...

Examine it from this point of view Ken.

You go in for an operation, are lying on the operating table. The Doctor takes a big whiff of his own anestectic, but does not provide you with any... then he pulls out a hacksaw! You say "hey, you arent a surgeon!" and he responds "Sure I am!" and you say, "No Prove it!" and he responds "Prove I am not!"

Are you gonna let him operate on you???

Also... lets list some Credentials here:

I was Army Infantry.
I have an MCSE
Im an Ordained Minister in The Universal Life Church
I'm also a certified forklift operator

Guess those qualifications mean I can teach Johnny-ryu Ninjitsu. And if you dont believe any of the above PROVE I am lying.

How can you NOT see what Don is saying? STEP OUT of the Conversation and LOOK man. Dear lord! He is absolutley right, that EVEN if all those claims that Mr Phelps makes are true, what do they have to do with his M.A. skills??... they are "fluff" to pad out his credentials.

 

[Karasu Tengu]

So how come you have no problem with him slandering Wayne Muromoto a racist, attacking Dave Lowry or using hate filled language?

Don you are a dufas. You are definitely one to be talking about Slander. Actually it is called Lible since it is in written format and can be reproduced. Unless it is stated as one's opinion, which I exressively did. Isn't that why Mr. Lowery did not provide names in his article? He was stating it as fact vice opinion and would therefore be subject to all the legal ramifications should someone actually press the issue. But I guess that what they teach in Budo now days.

There is no other way to put it. Not only am I not allowed to comment on things I see as having racist overtones, I am also not allowed to have a sense of humor as well. EVERYONE! Including you, goof on Count Dante. I guess in your world I am not allowed to do that as well. The matter was discussed with the Administrators of the board and guess what...I'm still here.

BTW as you well know, I am the only one who commented on Wayne and Dave. Now all of a sudden you claim that Ken and anyone else I know share my opinion. That is a bold face lie. Its missleading and fraudulent. You are fast becoming that which you loath and proving it on the boards.

You say I have no honor! I have plenty of documentation to the contrary and I think you need to take a long hard look in the mirror my friend. What a copulating bunch of scat. The bad thing is is that I call someone on thier comments, such as Wayne's, or Dave's actual LACK of investigation in his writing of an article, I am the one who gets hammered for it. Here in the States we call that Liberalism.

You should really be thanking me Don for it seems I give substance to you sad existance.

Techno- I agree with you. But, some people never let you step outside of the conversation and when you can these people always bring up the same old tired argument. It is never about them or thier claims only yours that matter.

 

[gozanryu]

Ok Techno, step outside and view it this way. You see a guys teaching tai chi in the park. You are a Shotokan Karate Kyu rank and a school teacher. You accidentally hear the Sifu say, I studied under Sifu XX when I was in college, and then when I was in Mil service XX I did this, and then later, I went back to school I did this. So you go tell everybody you meet that that man is a liar. Is it reasonable to assume that one of those people might say "what gives you the right to say that" You and I both know that Don's word's are actionable in any US court as libel. If Phelps loses any money over Don's worldwide declarations of his Professional credentials being lies, he is toast. If Don's original angle had been that he sees Phelps as a "Ninjitsu" fraud, that would be one thing, but that was not his angle. His angle (if you like, I can start cutting and pasting) was that Phelps was lying about everything he claims. Well, he wasn’t. And if you actually do a little reading. Don's accusations REQUIRE him (speaks to credibility) to disclose his A. Credentials (speaks to credibility and character) and B. His areas of expertise in this subject matter (speaks to relevance, credibility) Is it any fun, NO. It is much more fun to talk, then just hope it goes away. The way this thread came to be about Don is simple, he used mis-information as his Major Premise in his argument, therefore, he is required to "prove" the relevance’s of the "facts" as provided by him. He would lose in court in about 3 minutes and be paying for the rest of his life. Hey, who knows, it could still happen. Don has spoken as an authority on Martial Arts, Martial History, and as a Phelps Historian. Now the burden of proof, within the purvey of THIS discussion, is to prove, or refute the information he has provided as evidence here. Thus the need for his credentials.

 

[Kreth]

dufas....Lible......exressively......missleading

Might want to chill with the big words until you can spell them...
:uhyeah:

Jeff

 

[stephen]

If I say 1+1=3, I am wrong - no matter my credentials. Just a thought.


Steve

 

[tshadowchaser]

Just a friendly reminder to keep the subject FRIENDLY.

 

[Don Roley]

Ken...

While I often disagree with the tone Don takes, I agree with him in this situation and I feel that the only misdirection now is yours. It's not up to me to prove your instructor is Legit...

Thank you for pointing this out.

I honestly fail to see what my rank in the Bujinkan and such has to do with this discussion. Maybe my Japanese ability and years in Japan, but I have proven that before and that is not what is being asked. Why the heck is my military record being asked for? And why is there just no proof for many of the things being stated as "fact" by the other side? Where is Steve going to school for the research he mentions, where is proof that Phelps was in the CIA?

Note that I have to answer their demands, but they can make claims and don't have to back them up because they ask numerous questions and then demand proof. New tactic that. When you make a claim, instead of backing it up you ask the other person a question and get involved with trying to get them to prove it instead of what you freely claimed without being asked.

 

[gozanryu]

Nice dodge Don.

Answer the questions Don, show some backbone.

Spend some time reading my post, it is quite clear why your credentials are in question. Because you are not believable as an expert witness on this subject. In this post alone, you are asking Phelps to "prove" he was in the CIA. His book is full of facts, photos, dates and times to substantiate his Claims. BTW- Thats called "backing it up" Buddy. Now you must substantiate yours. You claim to be a high ranking Bujinkan member, prove it. You claim to be highly educated. Prove it. You claim to be an expert on wether or not Phelps military carreer is valid. Prove it.

Unless, of course, you cant prove it, or are in jeopardy of being caught in a lie. "Back it Up" don Substantiate YOUR claims. Validate YOUR expertise. It will be good practice for the lawsuit.

 

[Don Roley]

Unless, of course, you cant prove it, or are in jeopardy of being caught in a lie. "Back it Up" don Substantiate YOUR claims. Validate YOUR expertise. It will be good practice for the lawsuit.

Oh, a legal threat! I am so happy!! :boing2:

Oh yes, I can get proof if I buy your book, sounds like what Sojobobo would say. Not independently verifiable proof, more of a sales pitch.

Oh, and I never even mentioned that I was in the military or even a highly ranked Bujinkan member, so why do I have to prove it when you make a statement about talking to Kevin Millis and Glen Morris and don't have to prove it?

Misdirection at its best.

 

[gozanryu]

Don, buddy, the lawsuit thing is a joke, of course. In light of the "prove its" and "claims" and "fraudulent" tone of the discussion. Besides, I have to do do-diligence to determine if your worth suing, you know, title search for assets, etc. Anyway, I NEVER said buy a book. I said that there is a book published, with an ISDN number that has FAR MORE proof for Phelps' credentials, than you do against them. Thats all. Now your not mis-derecting, your running for the hills. The truth about you IS coming Don. You are about to be exposed for who you really are. But since you are who you say you are, why are you so reluctant to share the info? LMAO Soon.

 

[Don Roley]

The truth about you IS coming Don. You are about to be exposed for who you really are. But since you are who you say you are, why are you so reluctant to share the info? LMAO Soon.

Wait a second, I am reluctant to share info about myself according to the above statement, but at the same time I supposably am what I say I am.

If I don't say anything about myself, how can that be a lie. Outside the logic of people desperate to slime a critic, that is.

Everyone outside of the Saito ryu who has chimed in so far has said it as well, my credentials are a non issue. If someone like Dave Gibb or Technopunk tells me there is an aspect I should have to prove, I will listen to them. But the reality is that we are being treated to a classic case of misdirection by people making fruadulant claims. Ken does not want to try to prove his statements about talking to Kevin Millis, etc, so he screams time and time again about me.

People who make claims freely and then refuse to back them up are probably lying. If they don't care to prove their statements, they really should not care if they are treated as lies.

 

[gozanryu]

HaHAHAHAHAHAHAH Don. Explain to US why YOU do not have to substantiate you claims of expertise, but Phelps does. Explain why slanderous smack talk is ok for you, but not for others. Expalin it Don. Dont wait for Gibb or Techno to give you permission. Be a man, stand on your own two feet. No, maybe you had better wait for someone to validate this for you, and hold your hand. How old are you? Here is what I think, I think that when this whole deal started YEARS ago, you thought you would jump on the "bash the fake Ninja" bandwago. Fair enough. But then stretched it into attacking Phelps personally, of course thinking, (praying) he would come and kick your face in like some would for that behavior. Well, as is your nature, you LOVE to talk in cyberspace and share all of your "expertise" You never thought anyone would take you to task on it. Well, guess what? You have been writing checks with your mouth to long. (no wonder you hide in Japan) I do not believe you possess the expertise you say you do. So I ask you to prove it. Quite reasonable considering you are asking Phelps to do the same thing. Now you say you should not have to prove it, we should just accept your ad hominem responses as gospel. Why is that? Phelps has proof out there, at least for all his claims realating to career, service etc. You show no proof of your credentials. As you are fully aware, that makes your opinion suspect. I think your opinion is just that, opinion. You wouldnt be skirting the issue so vehemently if it wasnt. You would be sharing your Martial and Academic prowess with us, That is your nature as evidenced by your prior posts

" i hold the highest ranking in the Japanese languge"

"when Phelps came to Japan, he didnt check with me"

So, I think it is safe to assume, you are indeed, a paper tiger. Pathetic

How would you like me to empirically prove my conversation with Kevin Millis 11dan in Palm Springs California? Tell you about his impeccable Naginata technique? Tell you what a nice guy he is, estimate his height and weight at that time, oh yeah, I didnt check with you before hand, so it never happened. LOL

 

[Cryozombie]

Hey Don,

Totaly not to change the subject, but real quick, do you happen to know Todd Tumaneng?

Thanks.

 

[Frank Anford]

Hi,
You can call me Frank if you like, and I'm new to this board but not the arts.
I have been watching this thread amongst others and am curious about a few things being said
here if I may just ask and leave it at that....

1. What is your position in the arts, Don Roley, that make you such an authority and why when confronted with the level of your training or belt level you dance away from thes point blank questions?
My understanding of the so-called "ninja" arts, as you say you study are still based in your instructors wishes - as little as I understand I did some google homework...
(http://www001.upp.so-net.ne.jp/bujinkan/bjk/message01.htm as per the top school master in Japan.)
states rules against causing trouble on the internet.
Just because a person is from Japan (are you Japanese?) doesn't mean they know how to make sushi.
Maybe a sushi chef is supposed to know though. If your being asked what your level of training is in the art that you posture behind I think it's a valid question and you should answer it.



2. Using credentials to back up what you say is a curious thing sometimes.
so I am curious if the following post was versed in silliness;
(Technopunk wrote;-)
Also... lets list some Credentials here:

I was Army Infantry. (You could have had a dishonorable discharge with that too. What does a
groundpounder learn in a few weeks anyway?)

I have an MCSE (certified Microsoft software engineer?)

Im an Ordained Minister in The Universal Life Church (you get this by applying by the internet and it has nothing to do with any education...)

I'm also a certified forklift operator (perfectly honorable job and the most valid in this group...)

You were using this as an example of just sillyness yes?

As you state to "Gozanryu" that it is not up to you to prove an instructor is legit it is up to Don Roley to show how legit his level of training is since he goes against his instructors wishes based on the above link.

this whole silliness is confusing..

and Technopunk seems to be a greenbelt from his pics on his web but he is at least polite.

3. Dave Gibb you are a green belt on 09/13/99 as per http://www.geocities.com/ninpol/old/geobook.html
and listed as a "shodan" on www.geocities.com/remipulwer/BBBofC.html
but a "sensei" on http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/bujingodai.htm

At what rank does a person need to be a "sensei" in the Bujinkan Arts. Shodan??

Is Don Roley maybe a second dan authority in these arts possibly?
That would explain why no answer..



F.A.

 

[Nightingale]

MOD WARNING:

Please keep the discussion polite and respectful.

Please review the following post for the official MartialTalk policy on Frauds and Fraud Busting.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8708

Thanks!

-Nightingale
MT MOD

 

[Cryozombie]

Hi,
You can call me Frank if you like, and I'm new to this board but not the arts.
I have been watching this thread amongst others and am curious about a few things being said
here if I may just ask and leave it at that....

2. Using credentials to back up what you say is a curious thing sometimes.
so I am curious if the following post was versed in silliness;
(Technopunk wrote;-)
Also... lets list some Credentials here:

I was Army Infantry. (You could have had a dishonorable discharge with that too. What does a
groundpounder learn in a few weeks anyway?)

I have an MCSE (certified Microsoft software engineer?)

Im an Ordained Minister in The Universal Life Church (you get this by applying by the internet and it has nothing to do with any education...)

I'm also a certified forklift operator (perfectly honorable job and the most valid in this group...)

You were using this as an example of just sillyness yes?


and Technopunk seems to be a greenbelt from his pics on his web but he is at least polite.

F.A.

HAHA! Yes exactly Frank! I was saying that I can post a bunch of "credentials" that have nothing to do with being a Ninjutsu instructor, and they do not qualify me as one... Thank you for agreeing! And Yes, although that picture that you posted of me, was from a "Fantasy Photo Shoot" relating to those Rope Bondage pics on the same site, and not related to my Bujinkan Training, I am in fact a "greenbelt" specifically a 7th Kyu. I have never hidden that and it is in my profile.

Also, as a friendly warning, that pic that you pulled and posted here has a valid copyright by the photographer, please do not re-post them like that without her permission. The link to her studio's website is listed under the copyright notice on my site if you would like to purchse prints. Even tho I am the subject I have to ask her permission when I re-post them as well. Thanks, and welcome to MT.

 

[Don Roley]

HaHAHAHAHAHAHAH Don. Explain to US why YOU do not have to substantiate you claims of expertise, but Phelps does.

Because Phelps (and you) made claims, and I did not. I refused to let this conversation be pulled away from the subject matter, and you are attacking with real viciousness.

You (and the guy who just happend to join) seem to take the stance that no one can point out problems with Phelps story unless they are worthy enough. I point out that Phelps makes claims of being in the CIA, but there is no independent proof and you asked us to prove Phelps claims by looking at the book he wrote. I can point out that this is exactly like the tactics Sojobobo used when he asked people to look for proof on Frank Dux's web site. So, how does this relate to what rank I hold?

Your's is the typical diversion tactic and angry attack I have come to associate with the lowest level of frauds. If it looks like a Dux and quacks like a Dux.......

 

[Bujingodai]

Frank you are correct. I was a green belt then. My Senseiship is not in the Bujinkan thanks, but I do know people that were yellow belts and 13 then that are 17 and Yondan now, so qualifications are variable I am sure.
I had been a green for some years and was evaluated as I continued training under other teachers than the one who graded me originally.

But good homework

 

[Bujingodai]

I guess it begs further explaination due to the fact I am not a fraud and not lying about any of my past.

I was a green belt for 3 yrs before being evaluated.
I was training in the Bujinkan and Indie simulatainiously
I am presently getting ready for a nidan grading in the Kan
My grade is 4th Dan in another style of which I primarily train

The senseiship was also not something I went after, it happened. Most of the people that know me know that. It was an accident. There was a group then a bigger group and one thing led to another and it worked out.
I make not false claims, go to www.bujingodai.com

Its all there.

Honestly I have seen much worse in the department of people being underqualified to teach. I do the best I can.

 

[Nightingale]

I thought "sensei" was an honorific bestowed on a teacher by a student, and that teachers shouldn't refer to themselves as "sensei", at least in the traditional meaning of the term.

What then, is a "senseiship"?