Eye gouging thread

[punisher73]

Eye gouging or eye jabbing are not big deals. Only suckers pays money to train these techniques.

Eye jabbing is merely a jab or a straight cross. Anyone who trains Boxing, MMA, etc. will be already be proficient at eye jabbing whenever they want to, by extending their fingers out instead of balling it into a fist. Real fighters will train for speed, power, precision, etc. striking pads, bags and most importantly, fully resisting opponents during sparring....from light to hard sparring for KO's. Non-fighters can train for such too, but their sparring is usually limited to light contact. Therefore, who's going to be better at it eye jabbing? Someone who only play fight or someone who fights for real and often?

Personally, in a fight, I'd rather throw my entire fist at someone's face in hopes of having a better chance at hitting something rather than try to go for a pinpoint accuracy shot at an eyeball. If I miss the eye jab, then I just wasted a move while committing (thus in his range) and no one's going to just stand there and let me throw another attack one for free. A trained fighter, who's used to fists flying at his face all the time will just treat an eye jab as any other strike....and answer it. You can't just walk up to an experienced Boxer and poke him in the eye that easily...he's probably going to slip it and knock you out. Slipping 2 fingers is a lot easier than an entire fist.

Eye gouging is even more ridiculous if considered to be something that needs training for. You don't need to train to gouge someone's eyeballs out, let alone pay money for such training. Kind of like needing someone to teach you how to bite in a fight.

Cuz we all know that pro boxers are the epitome of self-defense skills outside of the ring...

It's just another tool for the job in your toolbox that has a time and place for the trained fighter. As to biting, there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it wrong, you are just going to piss off the person.

 

[Mz1]

We've already had a discussion on your opinion of MMA, so lets leave it out of this thread please. We all know each others standpoints by now, and none of them are going to change.

Well the OP's question can also expand to....if you're only going to play-fight in your training, then wouldn't you end up only play fighting in a real fight and just tap your attacker? Or does this argument only allowed to be used against MMA, implying that since MMA fighters trained to fight under rules, they must also be programed to fight with such rules in the streets and can't possibly do anything illegal?

A few reasons for it.
1:Without gloves on, throwing a closed fist to the face is going to hurt your hand, something you dont need to do.

Well I've done it and my hand was fine. It's called experience. I know when to throw full power (w/boxing gloves) and when not to throw full power (w/o gloves). And we don't even throw close to full power during training with MMA gloves. Once you're an experienced fighter, you're always careful about injuries.

2:IF you have the acccuracy, it can be more painful than another shot, and a good set up. How many times out of a hundred are you able to set something up based off a jab? probably about 70/80. How many times out of a hundred can you set up something based on an eye jab? close to 100

How many times have you eyepoked someone for real before? I throw at least 30 jabs per round. I'm pretty sure I'm good at it.

So yes, it can work and is a good idea to try in a fight (although I would never throw that tornado kick in a fight XD)

I don't theory fight.

 

[Aiki Lee]

You do not need to train how to poke someone in the eye, but you should train on when you should do it and why.

 

[Mz1]

Meh. I guess that's why boxers never get knocked out....

meh, they get KO'ed by equally experienced fighters in the ring and not usually from slobs nor masters of play fighting.

Maybe you weren't born yet, but there was a movement a few years ago to use thumbless gloves in professional boxing, because boxers thumb gouge each other, from time to time, even though it's against the rules. I think it was right around the time media darling Ray Leonard was diagnosed with a detached retina that he claims was from a thumb in his first fight against Tommy Hearns(?)

I don't remember that Old-timer, but I don't doubt eye gouging works. Especially for oldguys. But don't try to compare the speed, power and precision of a Pro Boxer with that of a play-fighter. Wonder who's going to be faster, more powerful and more precise?

And if your boxing coach didn't teach you about thumb gouging, and how to do it and get away with it without hurting yourself, you probably have the wrong coach......or he's not much older......:lfao:

Sorry but I would be a really big sucker if I need to pay someone to teach me how to eyegouge. Do you pay for tactical biting lessons too? With or without dentures?

 

[Mz1]

Cuz we all know that pro boxers are the epitome of self-defense skills outside of the ring...

My money's on them vs. a Pretend-Fighter.

It's just another tool for the job in your toolbox that has a time and place for the trained fighter. As to biting, there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it wrong, you are just going to piss off the person.

What are the wrong ways to bite someone?

 

[Mz1]

You do not need to train how to poke someone in the eye, but you should train on when you should do it and why.

And the guy teaching eye poking class, is he trained to tell the future to know how everything plays out? “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”

 

[Aiki Lee]

And the guy teaching eye poking class, is he trained to tell the future to know how everything plays out? “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”

There is no "eye poking class". The point I was making was that you don't need much instruction on how to jam your thumb into someone's eyes, but it is important to bring it up in training. You need to look at the tactical approach of attacking the eyes. What does it do to a person? How would someone respond to that? That's why it is a set up for something else. You need to teach what you are setting up with an attack to the eyes, more than how to physically strike the eyes themselves.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well the OP's question can also expand to....if you're only going to play-fight in your training, then wouldn't you end up only play fighting in a real fight and just tap your attacker? Or does this argument only allowed to be used against MMA, implying that since MMA fighters trained to fight under rules, they must also be programed to fight with such rules in the streets and can't possibly do anything illegal?

As the OP, I can assure you that's not what I meant with my post.

Well I've done it and my hand was fine. It's called experience. I know when to throw full power (w/boxing gloves) and when not to throw full power (w/o gloves). And we don't even throw close to full power during training with MMA gloves. Once you're an experienced fighter, you're always careful about injuries.

Sooo you cant throw a punch at full power without hurting your hand? Unlike, say a palm strike, or an eye jab, or a strike to the throat? Got it, ill just stick to what I can throw with "100% power" (although to be honest, I'm not sure how your measuring it..do you have something that measures the amount of force put into an object, and remember the feeling of each amount? Im assuming you do considering how often you mention % of power in your posts).

How many times have you eyepoked someone for real before? I throw at least 30 jabs per round. I'm pretty sure I'm good at it.

Not that many, but i have thrown them close to a persons eyes many times..know I can do it

I don't theory fight.

How is this comment relevant? I just stated that the move works, and agreed that a different move doesnt. Know 'theory fighting' going on there.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What are the wrong ways to bite someone?

Off the top of my head, biting someone in an area of the body where it wont do much (ie:the chest), or going to bite them in a position where they can do more damage to you then you can to them (when they can knee you as you move your head, or when both people are facing each other), or biting them when it would be more beneficial for you to do something else, such as 'eyepoking' them

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”

Just curious, were you referring to the Tyson quote here? Because the actual quote is "Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth."
Funny, seems like I know more about the pro boxer you keep referencing then you do ;P

Since knowing you, you won't believe that unless I provide actual proof for you, here it is:
http://howardgivner.com/articles/everyone-has-a-plan-until-they-get-punched-in-the-mouth
http://throatchopuniversity.wordpre...as-a-plan-till-they-get-punched-in-the-mouth/

If that wasn't what you were referring to with the blue, quoted words, ignore this post.

 

[Tez3]

We had a boxing match here this weekend where a cricketer has just beaten a boxer. Boxer started well but was beaten in the end. Lots of arguments whether he should have done it or not and whether it was good for boxing or not but the fact remains ... a cricketer beat an unbeaten pro boxer lol.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...intoff-wins-his-first-professional-fight.html

 

[punisher73]

My money's on them vs. a Pretend-Fighter.



What are the wrong ways to bite someone?

Humans are not pure carnivore such as a lion/tiger etc. Our teeth are not designed to just bite and tear flesh. If you just open up and clamp your mouth on something, you may cause pain but you are not going to get much panic reaction from it. The purpose of biting is to cause panic in the other person and their instinct is to just get away. The time I was bitten in a fight, the person didn't know what they were doing and just clamped on and down, and it didn't even break the skin. Just an annoyance and made me want to hurt them more.

 

[chinto]

can you train to do an eye gouge, yes, do they work, yes and for the street are effective.

 

[Mz1]

There is no "eye poking class". The point I was making was that you don't need much instruction on how to jam your thumb into someone's eyes, but it is important to bring it up in training. You need to look at the tactical approach of attacking the eyes. What does it do to a person? How would someone respond to that? That's why it is a set up for something else. You need to teach what you are setting up with an attack to the eyes, more than how to physically strike the eyes themselves.

This sounds like what schools do in order to milk the most money out of their students by creating some elaborate diagram on how to poke someone in the eye.

 

[Mz1]

Sooo you cant throw a punch at full power without hurting your hand? Unlike, say a palm strike, or an eye jab, or a strike to the throat? Got it, ill just stick to what I can throw with "100% power"

I bet I can still knock you out or break your nose with a less than full power punch that won't break my hand. But w/o gloves, I usually only throw elbows and knees mostly with just jabs to set them up.

(although to be honest, I'm not sure how your measuring it..do you have something that measures the amount of force put into an object, and remember the feeling of each amount? Im assuming you do considering how often you mention % of power in your posts).

Obviously it's not exact. But it's mostly due to experience. I spar at various power levels, with varying rule sets, etc. every week, ranging from light to full power, while you don't.

but i have thrown them close to a persons eyes many times..know I can do it

I thought you said that you'd fight the way you train, therefore, in a real fight on the street....wouldn't you throw them close to a person's eyes like you do in training?

Like here, where these Karatekas are so used to tap sparring, that they start doing the same while the Boxers are trying to KO them.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Like here, where these Karatekas are so used to tap sparring, that they start doing the same while the Boxers are trying to KO them.

Pretty sure you've linked this video, or a similar one, before, so ill respond the same way i believe was responded then...Do you know the situation of this fight? What were the rules being used. How much experience did the boxers have versus how much experience did the karetekas have? For the first question, since most of the boxers punches were light except for a few, im assuming that it was supposed to be light fighting, and the boxer put in the harder punches through either a lack of self control or to be an a$$. For the second one, one of them obviously didn't have a lot, since he was a white belt, and it's perfectly possible the other one was too. Finally, if the rules were that they were supposed to spar full contact/hard contact, then I'm going to assume the karetekas, through personal experience or the system, haven't fought full contact before. That is just as bad, maybe worse, as always doing full contact IMO, but there are times when you cant/shouldnt do that (when hitting vitals, or versus beginners).

 

[Mz1]

Off the top of my head, biting someone in an area of the body where it wont do much (ie:the chest), or going to bite them in a position where they can do more damage to you then you can to them (when they can knee you as you move your head, or when both people are facing each other), or biting them when it would be more beneficial for you to do something else, such as 'eyepoking' them

I guess this is where the TMA and SD people are heading, now that all the young blood are switching or flocking to MMA right? Tactical biting 101 and making it sound like every situation will be a life or death one.

 

[Mz1]

Just curious, were you referring to the Tyson quote here? Because the actual quote is "Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth."
Funny, seems like I know more about the pro boxer you keep referencing then you do ;P

Yea, at least we found something that you're good at.

Since knowing you, you won't believe that unless I provide actual proof for you, here it is:
http://howardgivner.com/articles/everyone-has-a-plan-until-they-get-punched-in-the-mouth
http://throatchopuniversity.wordpre...as-a-plan-till-they-get-punched-in-the-mouth/

If that wasn't what you were referring to with the blue, quoted words, ignore this post.

Thanks.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I guess this is where the TMA and SD people are heading, now that all the young blood are switching or flocking to MMA right? Tactical biting 101 and making it sound like every situation will be a life or death one.

Im a bit confused by this. I never said that every situation is a life or death one, nor do I normally go into when it would be a good or bad time to bite someone..not personally my thing, and not part of my schools curriculum. Just answering your question about when it would be a bad idea to bite someone. (also, I'm only 19 so wouldn't I still be considered young blood?)

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yea, at least we found something that you're good at.

What do you mean by that? How would you know what I am or am not good at?

Thanks.

You're welcome.