My Analysis of (some) Defendu techniques.

[frank raud]

the strike in the system (in the manuals anyway) is no ridge hands. Its just standards knife hands using the pinky side. But i did describe ridge hands in there as alternate which is used elsewhere. I dont know why that is, probably a safety thing given you could break your thumb/index finger easier and you need that for shooting.

Take a real good look at the match box strike in Get Tough!, then explain how this is not a ridge hand strike.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So, these are my first two statements of the first two moves in get tough, how did i do?

Besides the finish strategy (how to use it to end a fight), you should also include the entering strategy (how to set up).

For example,

- You use side kick.
- Your opponent block it and spin your body.
- You borrow his spin force, apply your palm strike.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Take a real good look at the match box strike in Get Tough!, then explain how this is not a ridge hand strike.

To be fair, im more concerned about that not working. I kind of want to try that but i dont think i would get a willing participant.

In context i was referring to his default knife hand to try and explain you dont strike with your thumb side when its extended and his standard knife hand was non ridge hand striking.

Besides the finish strategy (how to use it to end a fight), you should also include the entering strategy (how to set up).

For example,

- You use side kick.
- Your opponent block it and spin your body.
- You borrow his spin force, apply your palm strike.

Interesting, given i haven't actually learnt these things in context and most people get them from the books hes produced. There is a minor covering about using a side stomp to the foot/shin and if it doesnt work to palm strike them in the jaw.

Hopefully some WW2 combatives places are still around when i can actually get them or techniques based on them.

 

[frank raud]

To be fair, im more concerned about that not working. I kind of want to try that but i dont think i would get a willing participant.

In context i was referring to his default knife hand to try and explain you dont strike with your thumb side when its extended and his standard knife hand was non ridge hand striking

Interesting, given i haven't actually learnt these things in context and most people get them from the books hes produced. There is a minor covering about using a side stomp to the foot/shin and if it doesnt work to palm strike them in the

Why do you think the matchbox strike wouldn't work? Many people who do WWII combatives(not all) learned them from veterans of WWII or Korea. One gentleman I learned from was taught by his father, who was in Darby's Rangers. His father , in turn was taught combatives in England by Stan Bissell.

 

[frank raud]

NEVER, and I repeat, NEVER do a knife-hand strike with your thumb extended. Unless of course you want to break your thumb. The ONLY time your thumb should be extended from your hand is if you are going to grab something, i.e. a wrist lock, choke, etc. Otherwise, whether you're doing a knife-hand strike, a palm strike, a punch, or any other type of strike, keep your thumb tucked in!

In the systems you are familiar with. In several Japanese and Chinese systems, it is taught with the thumb extended. In the over 20 years I have been doing combatives, striking various things like Bobs, heavy bags, door frames(and occasionally other people), I have never had a concern about breaking my thumb, as I'm hitting with the opposite side of my hand.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Why do you think the matchbox strike wouldn't work? Many people who do WWII combatives(not all) learned them from veterans of WWII or Korea. One gentleman I learned from was taught by his father, who was in Darby's Rangers. His father , in turn was taught combatives in England by Stan Bissell.

I would be interested to see it done on someone to see the effect first hand.

The kind of line seems to be dying out sort of. More contemporary things have popped up and WW2 combatives should have evolved since the war. (latter isnt a bad thing)

 

[drop bear]

Mate if I am in a trench fighting a Nazi. I am throwing elbows.

 

[frank raud]

I would be interested to see it done on someone to see the effect first hand.

The kind of line seems to be dying out sort of. More contemporary things have popped up and WW2 combatives should have evolved since the war. (latter isnt a bad thing)

Again, why is it you think the matchbox strike won't work?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Again, why is it you think the matchbox strike won't work?

Seems weird and i question the force being generated to achieve anything other than a superficial effect on the person in question. (i dont really know many people who carry a matchbox around with them rather than a lighter either)

But then it seems like such a niche thing someone must have done it for it to be in the book.

 

[Tez3]

Mate if I am in a trench fighting a Nazi. I am throwing elbows.

Preferably someone else's.

 

[DocWard]

Could be. Most times the name is improperly applied. Defendu was the police restraining art that Fairbairn taught in Shanghai, Gutterfighting, the Fairbairn system, WWII Combatives would be more appropriate for something based on the WWII era syllabus. Don't get me started on the Defendo systems that claim Fairbairn lineage.

Start! Start!

 

[frank raud]

So, Rat, did you get any farther in studying Defendu techniques?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

So, Rat, did you get any farther in studying Defendu techniques?

I found a website with some articles on it, by someone i forgot the name of. As far as i got, Fairbairn taught it different to the OSS and NA units*, than sykes did to U.K ones and the SoE.
*With the edition of applegate

And then, the techniques were made to be simple, easy to apply, applicable to multiple things and be not easily telegraphed etc. Or at least they were some criteria to them. (so each technique meets one or more of a list of criteria)

i haven't properly read the website yet, only skimmed some bits of interest. would probably give my right arm to find a place which teaches it in full though. In its traditional method with maybe a few modern replacements to better represent the developments in sports science.

Edit: in addition to that, i kind of want to see his footwork and elbows.

 

[Headhunter]

I found a website with some articles on it, by someone i forgot the name of. As far as i got, Fairbairn taught it different to the OSS and NA units*, than sykes did to U.K ones and the SoE.
*With the edition of applegate

And then, the techniques were made to be simple, easy to apply, applicable to multiple things and be not easily telegraphed etc. Or at least they were some criteria to them. (so each technique meets one or more of a list of criteria)

i haven't properly read the website yet, only skimmed some bits of interest. would probably give my right arm to find a place which teaches it in full though. In its traditional method with maybe a few modern replacements to better represent the developments in sports science.

Edit: in addition to that, i kind of want to see his footwork and elbows.

So you've read some articles...yeah that doesn't count as studying the system

 

[frank raud]

I found a website with some articles on it, by someone i forgot the name of. As far as i got, Fairbairn taught it different to the OSS and NA units*, than sykes did to U.K ones and the SoE.
*With the edition of applegate

And then, the techniques were made to be simple, easy to apply, applicable to multiple things and be not easily telegraphed etc. Or at least they were some criteria to them. (so each technique meets one or more of a list of criteria)

i haven't properly read the website yet, only skimmed some bits of interest. would probably give my right arm to find a place which teaches it in full though. In its traditional method with maybe a few modern replacements to better represent the developments in sports science.

Edit: in addition to that, i kind of want to see his footwork and elbows.

I'll make it easy on you. No elbows, no footwork shown in any of his manuals.

 

[geezer]

I'll make it easy on you. No elbows, no footwork shown in any of his manuals.

Hmmm. This is Rat's thing... and he's diligent and dedicated to keeping the conversation going ...but he hasn't actually trained in it, so rather than a practitioner, that would make him a researcher and scholar of the art ...except that he only skim reads the articles and other sources he finds, and depends upon people like you, Frank, for clarification... so he really isn't much of a researcher, at least not a serious one ...so what would he be?

...a diligent dilittante?

@ Rat: No hard feelings Rat. I'm mostly a keyboard warrior myself these days. I'm lucky if I can train with the guys a couple of times a week, and it's not very physical training at that. In fact I'm fat and feeling over the hill. Yet I still hang out here and mouth off just for fun!

 

[Mitlov]

Mate if I am in a trench fighting a Nazi. I am throwing elbows.

I'd stick with the conveniently-sharp shovel myself

 

[drop bear]

I'd stick with the conveniently-sharp shovel myself

 

[drop bear]

I'd stick with the conveniently-sharp shovel myself

As a side note. I do own one of these.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I'll make it easy on you. No elbows, no footwork shown in any of his manuals.

Yep, i saw that,i have skimmed get tough a few times, and i dont think i saw it on the ToC for the others ones. Well footwork is shown, its just not a subject of its own.

Hmmm. This is Rat's thing... and he's diligent and dedicated to keeping the conversation going ...but he hasn't actually trained in it, so rather than a practitioner, that would make him a researcher and scholar of the art ...except that he only skim reads the articles and other sources he finds, and depends upon people like you, Frank, for clarification... so he really isn't much of a researcher, at least not a serious one ...so what would he be?

What did you say about me? i have over a thousand successful palm heel strikes on nazis...

I can really only go on whats printed in readily available sources and its a semi nitche subject, outside of the main manuals you can find anyway. And since Paladins press went under, rex applegates books is harder to find. I dont really keep notes or annotate sources, and i usually read in a reference way, so i fish out things to read to check on things.

...a diligent dilittante?

there are some pros in that, you can find some obscure articles and such, you never quite know what i have archived.