"Every cop should learn BJj" Do you agree?

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Hanzou, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    5,035
    Likes Received:
    718
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Interesting article and video about a firefighter who was shot and killed. The video in the article makes the argument that because of Bjj's ground fighting expertise they can control suspects better and help avoid cops losing control and getting accidently shot or stabbed. I would be very interested in hearing other people's thoughts on this.

    Fatal Shooting of Firefighter: Why Every Cop Should Train BJJ
     
  2. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,265
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Location:
    Saline
    No. If they want great but not necessary



    To clarify: The video is an example of poor and/or wrong defensive tactics and handcuffing. He doesn’t need BJJ he just needs to use proper tactics
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  3. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Messages:
    10,315
    Likes Received:
    943
    Trophy Points:
    263
    I think cops should learn something not necessarily BJJ. but any kind of self defense. They spend maybe a week or two in the academy learning defensive tactics, then many officers never train again. However, as a police firearms and DT instructor myself, there is no way we will get cops to train often enough to use BJJ effectively. I arranged free BJJ training for my department twice a week and on average had 3 or 4 people show up out of 125 officers. I once worked at a larger department with 900 officers that had several BJJ Black belts on the department that offered free training and nobody showed up. Most cops work long days then add shift work, court on your days off, mandatory OT and special events they don't want to do anything police related on their time off. Getting department heads to send officers while on duty is impossible with manpower issues and all the other mandatory training they are required to do. I have a hard enough time getting officers to the range twice a year and that's a state requirement.

    However, in a perfect world where officers wanted to train in my opinion, Judo would be best, in my opinion, or general law enforcement. Not that BJJ is bad I just think the takedowns and throws for Judo are more conducive to the goals of law enforcement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
  4. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

    • Advisor
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,877
    Likes Received:
    910
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Huber Heights, OH
    I recommend that every cop learn Judo, BJJ, wrestling, or some sort of grappling based curriculum. Required? I dunno about requiring it. I get the idea of required standards, but it so often doesn't actually achieve what the desired outcome is. Like shooting standards. A lot of times the standards are made by people who don't really know what it takes or are using out of date methodologies and theories and then the cops will "train to the test" instead of just training. It's pretty common for some cops to get nervous and spend tons of time practicing for requalification, trying to get back up to Qualification Standard. ...you mean they weren't there already? :eek:

    So, while I like and understand the idea of "standards" and "requirements," too often they don't really achieve what is being hoped for/claimed. Same goes for grappling curriculum for cops. Either they see the value and do it on their own (hopefully paid for or reimbursed) or they view it as an irritant and distraction then grudgingly do the bare minimum to meet requirements.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    768
    Trophy Points:
    263
    I agree that cops should train a good martial art. That isn't just an art with a good reputation, but where it is taught correctly as well.

    I understand the reason for not wanting bad publicity. But when a bad guy resists and tries to harm you, he gets what he deserves. So I don't think what the art is, is the best way to choose it, but how to use the art you studied well. Even a striking art will damage an opponent less if it is applied in a way that causes a lot of pain with minimal damage.
     
  6. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    5,035
    Likes Received:
    718
    Trophy Points:
    263
    If only real karate was that awesome.......
     
  7. TMA17

    TMA17 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    58
    I'm not a cop or an expert in any grappling art, but I tend to agree with Iklawson. Can't go wrong with Judo/Wrestling/BJJ, with each obviously having their own benefit.

    I don't know how legit this guy is, but he's a fan of Judo. Judo though has a high learning curve compared to BJJ/Wrestling. You can learn some basic throws pretty quick but to use them against a resisting opponent? I don't know.

    I always though within 6-12 months in BJJ you can be good enough to control your average idiot. I think BJJ would be beneficial to learn.

    Why Judo? - The Self Defense Training System
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    5,035
    Likes Received:
    718
    Trophy Points:
    263
    While I largely agree, I think the cops are trying to avoid getting in trouble later on. Like if you can restrain someone without hurting them, that goes a long way to avoiding trouble from lawsuits and other crap. Striking can be a slippery slope depending on the situation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. TMA17

    TMA17 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Question for the BJJ guys, how much of BJJ can be applied standing?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    16,730
    Likes Received:
    3,974
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Oh look. A cop on their own trying to fight a guy.
     
  11. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Messages:
    10,315
    Likes Received:
    943
    Trophy Points:
    263
    That's the big problem I see now. Everyone is afraid of ending up on CNN so things that one good pop to the nose would end quickly now end up in long drawn out half hearted wrestling matches because Cops are worried about just ending it fast and hard.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    20,436
    Likes Received:
    5,973
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    BJJ - taught with the right focus - would be a reasonable answer to the problem. Actually, so would several other systems I’m aware of, to varying degrees. More importantly, more time and repetition in training any reasonable control tactics would improve things.

    So, I’d be good with the idea of BJJ filling that space. It serves at least as well as anything else, if adapted to the context...probably better than most other answers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    20,436
    Likes Received:
    5,973
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    What has “deadly” (or the rest of that) to do with the topic at hand?
     
  14. Christopher Adamchek

    Christopher Adamchek Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2018
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    CT
    @ballen0351 had some great points

    they should have better training but time is an issue with them, i had cops as the university i teach self defense at amazed by their lack of knowledge in knife confrontation and they have have trouble committing to classes. A stronger emphasis on stand-up grappling and hand trapping would be nice to police to use more often.
     
  15. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    5,035
    Likes Received:
    718
    Trophy Points:
    263
    The kimura, the guillotine, RNC, Arm triangle, and a few others off the top of my head. Plenty of nasty wrist locks too. Probably want to avoid breaking someone's limb or shoulder though.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    20,436
    Likes Received:
    5,973
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Nearly all of arm control would be applicable to cuffing. The whole concept of position before technique would also be big.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,265
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Location:
    Saline
    Would be better off learning boxing and training regularly on Defensive Tactics that have restraint, escorting, handcuffing, and weapon retention in mind.
     
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    16,730
    Likes Received:
    3,974
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Doesn't have the quality control.
     
  19. Buka

    Buka MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    8,787
    Likes Received:
    5,437
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    I'm the wrong one to ask because I think everyone should train.

    But....in the real world, in order to get cops to train a Martial Art you pretty much have to be paying them overtime.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  20. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,265
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Location:
    Saline
    We have had this argument already.

    Real world application is very much quality control.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page