"Every cop should learn BJj" Do you agree?

[Hanzou]

Most Defensive tactics systems coming out now use BJJ techniques. They take the techniques that will work in LEO instead of the whole art. They also take techniques that dont quite fit our needs and modify them to fit them. Many of the tactics also have to be modified for weapon retention.

All the escapes from the bottom are BJJ with some modification for weapon retention.

Our handcuffing position is a modified version of knee to belly....we use knee to back.

Yeah, the bottom escapes/counters and top control methods in BJJ are invaluable imo. Of all things I learned, those two attributes saved my butt more than anything else.

 

[CB Jones]

Because of all those resisted arrests that end standing?

Because you put emphasis on problems you are seeing in the field during use of force actions.

It's a continual analysis of what is happening in the field.

 

[drop bear]

Because you put emphasis on problems you are seeing in the field during use of force actions.

It's a continual analysis of what is happening in the field.

Sounds complicated.

Let's try this.

Because if an arrest turns in to a fight you dump the guy on his *** and sit on him.

Sort of. There are bouncer issues where you don't necessarily have that luxury. But otherwise it is consistent world wide and job wide.

 

[drop bear]

Most Defensive tactics systems coming out now use BJJ techniques. They take the techniques that will work in LEO instead of the whole art. They also take techniques that dont quite fit our needs and modify them to fit them. Many of the tactics also have to be modified for weapon retention.

All the escapes from the bottom are BJJ with some modification for weapon retention.

Our handcuffing position is a modified version of knee to belly....we use knee to back.

Interestingly. I don't think knee to back really works well. (For all those who are proficient in ompapalata mechanics. Your body needs to be off them not on them)

But yeah. The last guy who did cuffing with us did that sort of back ride. And it didn't feel heavy.

Getting up from face down is different. It is very much from your feet and hips. Where as face up is from the head.

There are these really nice options for flattening guys out from turtle used in wrestling that are so much higher percentage.

A spiral ride apparently.

 

[JP3]

Sounds complicated.

Let's try this.

Because if an arrest turns in to a fight you dump the guy on his *** and sit on him.

Sort of. There are bouncer issues where you don't necessarily have that luxury. But otherwise it is consistent world wide and job wide.

Drop, I think you've just claimed the title of Master of Understatement, right there.

 

[CB Jones]

Sounds complicated.

Let's try this.

Because if an arrest turns in to a fight you dump the guy on his *** and sit on him.

Sort of. There are bouncer issues where you don't necessarily have that luxury. But otherwise it is consistent world wide and job wide.

Not really.

All use of force and report of injuries are reviewed and recorded. Recurring problems or deficiencies (striking, grappling, problems with specific techniques or tactics, etc...) are noted and additional training or changes in techniques or tactics are provided.

Most agencies share info on changes in techniques and tactics so tactics are always evolving.

 

[dvcochran]

Anyone working as a police officer might have different thoughts on this subject than anyone not working as a police officer.

Anyone who trains BJJ might have different thoughts on this than anyone who doesn't train BJJ.

Anyone who works as a police officer and trains BJJ might have different opinions as well. I think for the most part each and all would be valid.

I guess it could depend on how and when any or all of these experiences took place, how they first presented themselves to you, and what the hell you did with them.

As for me, I'm good thanks. I'll keep doing what I've been doing and teaching what I've been teaching. Haven't lost any guys yet. I've had good law Enforcement trainers, on high levels. The BJJ instructors weren't too shabby either.

I have read all the posts in this thread. I just keep thinking of the 6' rule; or in other words, stay the hell out of my space. I strongly agree with the posts that talk about controlling the takedown. I have never practiced BJJ but I was very comfortable with a takedown when it came to it. I have worked with some pretty aggressive officers who frankly loved the contact. They always had a lot more resisting arrest charges than I did. I am a big believer in presentation, posture, tone, etc... Just don't give them too long to think about it; that is usually when someone will try something stupid.

 

[drop bear]

Not really.

All use of force and report of injuries are reviewed and recorded. Recurring problems or deficiencies (striking, grappling, problems with specific techniques or tactics, etc...) are noted and additional training or changes in techniques or tactics are provided.

Most agencies share info on changes in techniques and tactics so tactics are always evolving.

I did customer service training the other day. Apparently the CEO's of the company looked in the fridges of 200 people to get a better understanding of customers needs.

Didn't make the training worth going to though.

As a side note. I learned to sell alcohol to people you need to be able to have a normal functional conversation with people.

Trainer "So how would you provide an authentic customer experience?"

Me "give any sort of **** at all about the person you are having that conversation with.
"

Trainer. "I am sorry I don't know what you mean."

 

[JP3]

Not really.

All use of force and report of injuries are reviewed and recorded. Recurring problems or deficiencies (striking, grappling, problems with specific techniques or tactics, etc...) are noted and additional training or changes in techniques or tactics are provided.

Most agencies share info on changes in techniques and tactics so tactics are always evolving.

What? You mean cops worldwide aren't stuck into WWII Combatives and just sent on their merry way? I'm surprised by that.

J/K

"Some" of the officers I know are near-maniacal about their training, be it with firearms, SD, tactics, CQB...whatever.

BUt… "some" are disturbingly... not relaxed, relaxed isn't a strong enough word as it has too many letters in it, so let's just say they are lax. When I worked the field, and all I did was 911 Paramedic, I was in the gym every off day lifting/working out, and in the dojo or Muay Thai gym every day. Single then, which helped, but still.

 

[CB Jones]

What? You mean cops worldwide aren't stuck into WWII Combatives and just sent on their merry way? I'm surprised by that.

J/K

"Some" of the officers I know are near-maniacal about their training, be it with firearms, SD, tactics, CQB...whatever.

BUt… "some" are disturbingly... not relaxed, relaxed isn't a strong enough word as it has too many letters in it, so let's just say they are lax. When I worked the field, and all I did was 911 Paramedic, I was in the gym every off day lifting/working out, and in the dojo or Muay Thai gym every day. Single then, which helped, but still.

Also it can be hard to convince officers to change what they have been doing sucessfully for a long time.

For example, doing entry and clearing buildings....for all of my career, we hit doors, dominate the room with speed and surprise....now they are teaching a slower approach....open the door and wait....cut the pie and then enter quickly and dominate the room.

Statistically, it is safer for the officers but after doing fast entries for 14 years it's hard to buy into the slower approach.

 

[dvcochran]

Also it can be hard to convince officers to change what they have been doing sucessfully for a long time.

For example, doing entry and clearing buildings....for all of my career, we hit doors, dominate the room with speed and surprise....now they are teaching a slower approach....open the door and wait....cut the pie and then enter quickly and dominate the room.

Statistically, it is safer for the officers but after doing fast entries for 14 years it's hard to buy into the slower approach.

When I starting teaching DT's for our PD I was one of the younger officers. I still remember teaching joint manipulations and takedowns and being told by multiple officers "I don't need this crap, when do we work on slap jack drills? f you don't know what that is:

I don't remember the strap but, you get the idea. Some guys had worked the handle until they would fold over. They would put the end in their palm and slap the s*** out of someone being rowdy.

 

[CB Jones]

When I starting teaching DT's for our PD I was one of the younger officers. I still remember teaching joint manipulations and takedowns and being told by multiple officers "I don't need this crap, when do we work on slap jack drills? f you don't know what that is:

I don't remember the strap but, you get the idea. Some guys had worked the handle until they would fold over. They would put the end in their palm and slap the s*** out of someone being rowdy.

Slap Jack's were gone by the time I started but my buddies dad had one.....that thing was brutal....I cant imagine getting hit by one.

 

[marques]

Cops want the back of the ‘bad guys’, for hand cuffing and so on; and they would prefer to be on top. As cops are very often limited to grappling Bjj would help, but I believe something more specific would be better. 2 cops (2 good guys) vs 1 ‘bad guy’ is a likely scenario in real life that I have not seen anywhere; they need to protect themselves AND their weapons...

 

[drop bear]

Cops want the back of the ‘bad guys’, for hand cuffing and so on; and they would prefer to be on top. As cops are very often limited to grappling Bjj would help, but I believe something more specific would be better. 2 cops (2 good guys) vs 1 ‘bad guy’ is a likely scenario in real life that I have not seen anywhere; they need to protect themselves AND their weapons...

The order of priorities change a bit. As there a few things you can do and a few you can't in that situation.

Sweeps become hard because you almost never manage to build up momentum if there is another guy hanging on. But rides become very effective because you have twice the weight.

I got away with some very sneaky figure 4 leg locks just because the guy couldn't really roll out to escape them.

 

[dvcochran]

The order of priorities change a bit. As there a few things you can do and a few you can't in that situation.

Sweeps become hard because you almost never manage to build up momentum if there is another guy hanging on. But rides become very effective because you have twice the weight.

I got away with some very sneaky figure 4 leg locks just because the guy couldn't really roll out to escape them.

I am a super middle weight (around 170) and not overly tall. I am really good at a rear choke to clamp the carotid arteries. We had a few regulars who are really big and loved to fight. I remember more than a few times where I would jump on their back and ride them until they finally went down. Good times.