England, land of surveillance cameras...

[Bill Mattocks]

England is the most heavily-surveilled nation on earth. There are cameras everywhere, and human eyes watching the monitors they're connected to. Designed to prevent crime, many question how well they actually work and what the tradeoffs are in terms of personal liberty and freedom.

But in some cases, you just have to laugh.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...himself-after-being-mistaken-for-burglar.html

But he failed to realise that it was actually the plain-clothed officer he was watching on the screen, according to details leaked to an industry magazine.
The operator directed the officer, who was on foot patrol, as he followed the "suspect" on camera last month, telling his colleague on the ground that he was "hot on his heels".
The officer spent around 20 minutes giving chase before a sergeant came into the CCTV control room, recognised the “suspect” and laughed hysterically at the mistake.

Short version: the police officer tailed himself for 20 minutes while the CCTV operator guided him through back alleys and in and out of small streets, hoping he could catch up to the 'suspect', which was actually himself.

 

[ballen0351]

That's funny. I feel like im following myself all the time.

Cameras do work however. We have cameras in some of our housing projects and you can see alot more then you could being out there. Plus one officer can watch multiple areas by themselves so its a force multiplier

 

[Tez3]

A lot of people have cause to be very thankful for those cameras. Saved many lives. I think you have to understand what happens in the streets when the drinking starts to see how much people appreciate having the cameras there. Councils are besieged by people wanting the CCTV int heir streets, though there's not as many cameras as you might think from the article. People often set up their own to protect their homes.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A lot of people have cause to be very thankful for those cameras. Saved many lives. I think you have to understand what happens in the streets when the drinking starts to see how much people appreciate having the cameras there. Councils are besieged by people wanting the CCTV int heir streets, though there's not as many cameras as you might think from the article. People often set up their own to protect their homes.

It's kind of funny, then. England wants the government watching their every move; but they arrest photographers for taking photos in public. Wow.

 

[Tez3]

It's kind of funny, then. England wants the government watching their every move; but they arrest photographers for taking photos in public. Wow.

Does 'England'? Or perhaps you mean the UK? or maybe you mean the Scottish or the Irish or the Welsh, they all have governments too.

http://www.met.police.uk/about/photography.htm


Arresting someone as I have explained before means only they are being questioned, arrest here isn't the same as arrest in the US. Arrest doesn't mean being charged. Arrest here has it's original meaning ie to stop, to halt.

I think too you may want to sort the difference with what the people want and want a government wants, government btw not Parliament.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Does 'England'? Or perhaps you mean the UK? or maybe you mean the Scottish or the Irish or the Welsh, they all have governments too.

http://www.met.police.uk/about/photography.htm

I have no clue. You people are very confusing. I think you do it on purpose.

 

[ballen0351]

An arrest here is the same thing If your not free to leave your "arrested". I dont have to charge you for it to be an arrest. And just because I say your not under arrest im only placing you into cuffs for my safety does not mean your not arrested. Ive lost a case or two because of that.

 

[Tez3]

An arrest here is the same thing If your not free to leave your "arrested". I dont have to charge you for it to be an arrest. And just because I say your not under arrest im only placing you into cuffs for my safety does not mean your not arrested. Ive lost a case or two because of that.

We had this discussion a while back here and I was told that being arrested is a big deal in America because it mean you were charged etc, I was going by that information.


For Bill M. http://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/how/how-understand-difference-between-uk-and-great-britain

 

[Sukerkin]

As Ballen says, there is evidence that the camera's do indeed have an affect on crime levels, or most certainly the detection of crime. For myself, if I got into danger, I would feel much happier if there was a Bobby nearby than a CCTV camera. I have a moral objection to being 'surveilled' by technology that somehow I don't feel about being 'protected' by 'actually there' police officers.

 

[ballen0351]

We had this discussion a while back here and I was told that being arrested is a big deal in America because it mean you were charged etc, I was going by that information.


For Bill M. http://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/how/how-understand-difference-between-uk-and-great-britain

the way its used in the US is arrested means charged but that's not the legal use of it. I can arrest people question then and release them without charges. That's one of the tricky things about our legal system. Sometimes I can be found that I have arrested someone even if I didn't mean too. If your found to have been arrested then I need to advise you of your miranda right to question you. So sometimes you can ask people questions and they confess to something then you arrest them only to later be told by a judge you really arrested them before you questioned them so so any questions you asked were in violation of their rights and you loose a case. Its all legal mubo jumbo

 

[Tez3]

As Ballen says, there is evidence that the camera's do indeed have an affect on crime levels, or most certainly the detection of crime. For myself, if I got into danger, I would feel much happier if there was a Bobby nearby than a CCTV camera. I have a moral objection to being 'surveilled' by technology that somehow I don't feel about being 'protected' by 'actually there' police officers.

If you look at many towns on a night there are a lot of police officers on the ground however they are busy dealing with the drunks, the fights, the assaults that our drinking culture has brought about. Police forces these days are having to police the streets as they are taken over by the drunken, the out of control, the vomiting and the yobs, with the best will in the world they can't police everywhere when they are stuck with these idiots. CCTV isn't the best thing but until the UK sobers up it's what you've got. On any given night there will be thousands of coppers out on the streets but they will be tied up, blame the drunks, the pubs and the clubs whoever but don't think the police are any happier than you are by this happening. They didn't join up to nursemaid drunks or arrest drunken chavs.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

If you look at many towns on a night there are a lot of police officers on the ground however they are busy dealing with the drunks, the fights, the assaults that our drinking culture has brought about. Police forces these days are having to police the streets as they are taken over by the drunken, the out of control, the vomiting and the yobs, with the best will in the world they can't police everywhere when they are stuck with these idiots. CCTV isn't the best thing but until the UK sobers up it's what you've got. On any given night there will be thousands of coppers out on the streets but they will be tied up, blame the drunks, the pubs and the clubs whoever but don't think the police are any happier than you are by this happening. They didn't join up to nursemaid drunks or arrest drunken chavs.

A long time ago, I dated a woman who lived in the US, but was a permanent resident, having been born in England Her brother was born there also. I asked her if she would ever want to return to England. She said she and her brother had gone on a visit when they graduated high school. Her brother was walking down a 'high street' in London and someone asked him where he was from. He said "I was born here, but I was raised in America," and the man nutted him in the face, breaking his nose and requiring stitches. She said that was pretty much it for both of them after that.

When I was in Australia in a club, a man and his friends came up to me and asked me where I was from. I said "The USA," and he tried to nut me. He was drunk; I wasn't. It didn't go well for him. But I never really saw people in the US act that way towards tourists from the UK or Australia. Mostly, the women go crazy for guys with accents, and the men don't have a problem with it; at least not like walking up to someone, asking one question and then trying to murder them. Weird.

If I ever went to England, if someone asked me where I was from, I think I'd just punch them out right then and there, since that's probably their plan for me.

 

[jks9199]

the way its used in the US is arrested means charged but that's not the legal use of it. I can arrest people question then and release them without charges. That's one of the tricky things about our legal system. Sometimes I can be found that I have arrested someone even if I didn't mean too. If your found to have been arrested then I need to advise you of your miranda right to question you. So sometimes you can ask people questions and they confess to something then you arrest them only to later be told by a judge you really arrested them before you questioned them so so any questions you asked were in violation of their rights and you loose a case. Its all legal mubo jumbo

It's also actually different state-to-state, somewhat.

Generally, there's a distinction between a detention and arrest. In both cases, you're no longer free to leave. However formal arrest is generally associated with at least probable cause that the arrestee committed a particular criminal act. As I recall the earlier discussion, in England (and I presume the rest of the UK), you can actually arrest someone, and take them into custody for investigation. We are significantly limited in the ability to do that in the US.

As ballen said -- handcuffs often (but not always) escalate a detention to an arrest, and there's no magic phrase that eliminates that. But you're not arrested just because you feel like you're arrested, either. It's a more objective determination.

Arrest for the purposes of Miranda is another question... There are a lot of things to look at, and it's kind of complicated. And, also, kind of off topic here.

 

[Flying Crane]

eh, I spent two weeks in Britain a couple years ago. Spent some time in London and Bath and Wales as well as Ireland. honestly didn't much notice the cameras. Quite enjoyed the trip, everyone we met was lovely.

 

[Tez3]

A long time ago, I dated a woman who lived in the US, but was a permanent resident, having been born in England Her brother was born there also. I asked her if she would ever want to return to England. She said she and her brother had gone on a visit when they graduated high school. Her brother was walking down a 'high street' in London and someone asked him where he was from. He said "I was born here, but I was raised in America," and the man nutted him in the face, breaking his nose and requiring stitches. She said that was pretty much it for both of them after that.

When I was in Australia in a club, a man and his friends came up to me and asked me where I was from. I said "The USA," and he tried to nut me. He was drunk; I wasn't. It didn't go well for him. But I never really saw people in the US act that way towards tourists from the UK or Australia. Mostly, the women go crazy for guys with accents, and the men don't have a problem with it; at least not like walking up to someone, asking one question and then trying to murder them. Weird.

If I ever went to England, if someone asked me where I was from, I think I'd just punch them out right then and there, since that's probably their plan for me.

I could explain this but too many people would get miffed so I had better not.

 

[Blindside]

I could explain this but too many people would get miffed so I had better not.

Well now I am just curious, and glad nothing like that happened to me the two times I visited England.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I could explain this but too many people would get miffed so I had better not.

We get it. Brits and Aussies don't like American's. American's are arrogant gits. Neither knows how to play proper football. American beer is like sex in a canoe and there's no Fosters in Oz.

 

[Jenna]

We get it. Brits and Aussies don't like American's. American's are arrogant gits. Neither knows how to play proper football. American beer is like sex in a canoe and there's no Fosters in Oz.

Perhaps this prejudice is the true of some and but not all. I am British. This does not apply to me. If it were possible to distance myself from these kinds of broad-brush anti-American comments that are skirted around, alluded to on the forum, or sometimes typed outright, I would.

 

[Tez3]

Actually it's not that, I've already tried to explain about the drunken culture we have here but I get accused of supporting the 'state' and of being a fascist when i try to explain so I'm not going to.

 

[Gnarlie]

.....I've already tried to explain about the drunken culture we have here....

I'll start then.

It's not one of the reasons why I left England, but it is one of the reasons why I'm glad I did, and one of the reasons why I don't enjoy going back. The hardest thing is to explain that culture to someone who's not English and hasn't lived with it.

I wouldn't see it as supporting the state to acknowledge that there is a problem, and that it is getting worse. I once heard a standup comic put it well: In the rest of Europe people drink socially; the Brits drink to projectile vomit onto a statue.

As far as alcohol and food goes, a certain element of the British population need to wake up and wise up, realise the effect they are having on their health, their international reputation and their future, and take responsibility for their lives and actions. Alcoholic, overweight, undereducated, underage, and looking like we rolled in cheese doritos wearing too much orange fake tan. It's not big or clever.