Eishun Ryu 10th Degree question

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by thardey, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. thardey

    thardey Master Black Belt

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    I guess this is probably the best place to put this question.

    My sister's ex-boyfriend claimed a 10th degree Black Belt in Eishun Ryu (apologies if I spelled that wrong) by the time he was 18 years old.

    His story is that his dad was stationed in Thailand, where he apparently did nothing but study Eishun Ryu 8 hours a day, every day, for a couple of years. At the time, my sister still liked the guy, so I didn't really question it. But it always seemed kind of fishy to me. Don't get me wrong, he has great martial art skills, and I don't doubt that he spent a lot of time training, but a 10th degree in a couple of years?

    My sister said his mom confirmed that he had a 10th degree, but it seems like that kind of rank would come with time, as well as training.

    Now that he's (mostly) out of our lives, I would like to ask of those who do participate in Eishun Ryu whether this is 1.) a plausible scenario, or 2.) If anybody else has seen this happen.

    See, we're finding out that the guy is a compulsive liar, and I don't want to get a wrong impression of this art, with just this one loser representing it.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't think one needs to have a background in Eishun Ryu (i've never even heard of it by the way, altho I have heard of Enshin Ryu), to see how rediculous a claim this would be.

    Typically, a legitimate (however that may be defined) 10th dan is the leader of the system and has devoted some 50 or more years of training and teaching and leadership in the system. There aren't typically a whole swarm of 10th degrees running around out there (outside of the kenpo world, at least), who are just guys who like to train a lot.

    Who knows, maybe this guy even believes it himself? maybe he had a shady teacher who dished out whatever rank his mood of the moment dictated. But I doubt someone who is 18 years old and trained for a couple of years, even 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, would stack up well to the lifers.

    Consider this BS, even tho the guy may have some legitimate skill.
     
  3. stone_dragone

    stone_dragone Senior Master

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    I almost spit my cake out laughing so hard when I read this.

    Even Bruce Leroy was only a 4th Degree and he was THE MASTER!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBlTsHsr5Ig&mode=related&search=
     
  4. Drac

    Drac Sr. Grandmaster

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    A 10th Dan in Isshin-Ryu at 18 ???? NOT!!!
     
  5. Steel Tiger

    Steel Tiger Senior Master

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    I second the motion.
     
  6. Brandon Fisher

    Brandon Fisher Master Black Belt

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    I third the motion.
    10th Dan under 60 years old and less than 40 years of training I would have to scratch my head. If its not through one of the accredited isshin ryu organizations don't believe it. Since he is 18 don't believe it.
     
  7. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

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    Even without being sure of the system, I'll third that. If we were talking about Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, the sword art I study, I would point out that even the globally famed Iwata Sensei (holder of Menkyo Kaiden) is a mere hachidan, and he was born in 1913.

    Given the severe strictures on intervals between grading up that all serious schools enforce, it is impossible to be 10th Dan in anything for a very long time indeed.
     
  8. Tames D

    Tames D RECKLESS

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    The kid has balls, that's for sure.
     
  9. Gentle Fist

    Gentle Fist Master Black Belt

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    Put this into perspective.


    The Kodokan in Japan promoted 3 men to 10th dan last year. (Last promotion to 10th dan given out in 22 years) Two were in their 80's and one was a young man still since he was only 79. The younger of the three was considered one of the best judo players of his era. These men have been doing judo close to 75 years and were some of the best the world has ever seen. Anyone who claims tenth and is not old enough to be a great grandfather is questionable.

    18 and a 10th.... In his own mind maybe.
     
  10. Drac

    Drac Sr. Grandmaster

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    And if he ever runs into a true Isshin-Ryu student and pulls that 10th Dan crap he won't have them long...
     
  11. grydth

    grydth Senior Master

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    All of you qualify your disbelief with some version of, "from a reputable school".

    I would submit that many, if not most, out there today are not reputable.

    There is no shortage around these parts of 7 year old nidans.... one imagines they achieved shodan while still in utero.

    Given 10 more years of casual study at the Self Esteem Academy of Martial Arts, 10th Dan by age 18 is a rather modest expectation, actually. These kids, in the off chance they survive, can achieve martial splendor unheard of in the past. Who will be the Soke di tutti Sokes? Who will be the first 100th dan?

    It is a wonderful era.
     
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  12. Brandon Fisher

    Brandon Fisher Master Black Belt

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    I had a 10 year old Sandan come into my dojo not long ago and was looking to join a new school. She had achieved that sandan in a matter of 3 years of training. Her skill level was equal to no more than my hachi-kyu students and that was a big stretch.
     
  13. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    Wow....just wow.... *shakes head*

    Did she join your school Mr. Fisher? Or was she just "dojo shopping" ?
     
  14. Steel Tiger

    Steel Tiger Senior Master

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    This relates very nicely to another thread about respect and rank. Here is a child who holds a Sandan. Does she get any respect? Probably quite a bit, but not from anyone who knows better. Further, there can be little or no respect for the material she has learned. It was just a collection of boxes to tick off to attain certificates. Brandon described her as being significantly worse than her rank suggested, so techniques were learned without understanding.

    I don't want to sound like I am hounding this young lady, she, afterall, just jumped through the required hoops, as we all do. The onus for developing understanding begins with the teacher. The Self Esteem Academy of Martial Arts? Oh Yeah! And its here to stay.

    It is not just the claiming of rank, usually of outrageous levels, that leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many martial artists. Situations like this must contribute to the distaste
     
  15. Kacey

    Kacey Sr. Grandmaster

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    I think you have this guy nailed with the compulsive liar part. It wouldn't surprise me if he really has studied Eishun Ryu or whatever the correct spelling is - but as others have said, 10th Dan is more than checking off boxes; it is, generally, the highest rank in a style, and is for devoting a lifetime to a particular style. No matter what he knows, no matter how much time he has devoted to his style - it's been nowhere near a lifetime.
     
  16. Steel Tiger

    Steel Tiger Senior Master

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    You are exactly right. People of this rank should be the truly exalted few.
     
  17. Brandon Fisher

    Brandon Fisher Master Black Belt

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    Nope her parents told me if I made her take her black belt off they would not sign her up because it would be devastating to her. I told them I would not be a party to a child holding such a rank. They tried to justify it as it was a kids rank. I didn't buy so they didn't come back. Sadder yet even my students thought it was joke.
     
  18. Brandon Fisher

    Brandon Fisher Master Black Belt

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    The school she came from had promoted a 5 year olds to shodan in the past. Its a regular practice there. Strange but people actually use this as bragging rights that their kid is a black belt of whatever degreee.

    Sad thing is the kid is the victim not knowing any better will end up getting seriously hurt by telling the wrong person they are a black belt and not being able to defend themselves.
     
  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    To think it took me 9 years to get to first Dan! Well no more, from today I'm a 12th dan, I wanted one more than the lad in the OP but I like even numbers! From now on please address me as Mistress (but it has to be lisped like Terry Pratchett's Igors!)

    From a couple of the previous posts I can't decide whether I'm too young or too old to be any Dan grade! I suppose children can get a black belt if all they have to do is go through line work and katas, maybe spar with kids their size but it's just not right. For one thing what can they aspire to after getting a black belt at such a young age? As for being martial artists I think we all agree that's not possible at such a young age.
     
  20. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    At least your students have some brains and you've taught them some common sense....123
     

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