Dobok question

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by ETinCYQX, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

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    Excuse my ignorance, all, but I have a quick question regarding HapKiDo dobok's. We use a fair number of HapKiDo tech's in our TKD cirriculum (I think all of our hoshinsul are derived from HKD actually) and I always feel like I'm going to tear my dobok on collar grabs. How heavy are the ones you guys use? My TKD one is so thin you can tell what color shorts I have on underneath when I don't have the dobok top on, while my Fuji single weave Judogi is like wearing a snow suit. Are they more like a Judogi or closer to TKD doboks?

    Also, while I'm here, some of the footage I've seen of HKD classes looks like TKD-style sparring with hogu's and all. Is this normal? What techniques do you guys use sparring? I know there's a lot of striking in HKD, like TKD, but do you guys use more grappling-type things too?

    Again, thanks for bearing with me.
     
  2. kiddk1

    kiddk1 White Belt

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    I use the Judo ones since we do alot of throws and grabs, they are durable, has not tore in 6 yrs.
     
  3. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

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    That's kind of what I was thinking; my Fuji Gi's seem pretty durable. Cheap too.

    Thanks
     
  4. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    I do not have a lot of experience with the diamond doboks used in hapkido, but the ones worn by the local hapkido guys here aren't that thick. They seem to be equivalent to 10-12 oz karate uniforms. I think even a cheap judo single weave top would be more durable if you do much throwing using the lapels or sleeves.
     
  5. zDom

    zDom Senior Master

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    We just use plain white (usually single-weave) judo uniforms.

    We do manage to wear them out eventually, but they last a good four or five years.
     
  6. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    You're right, those cross stitch uniforms are thin and doesn't hold up well to grabbing, not like a Judo uniform does.

    The white uniform with black cross stitching is actually the Jidokwan dobok, not Hapkido. The cross stitching comes from the bottom of the judo gi top, and is an acknowledgment of the Jidokwan's early beginnings at the Chosun Yunmookwan, which was a Judo school.

    The black uniform with white cross stitching was a uniform used by some of the actors in Game of Death, the movie by Bruce Lee. They are shown normally in the scenes with Hapkido GM JI Han Jae, and ever since, that black uniform with white cross stitching has been associated with Hapkido and is even called Hapkido uniform in the martial arts supply company catalogs. But to my knowledge, they don't wear that dobok in Hapkido dojang in Korea.
     
  7. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    My student HKD dobok was white with the black diamond patern and was about as thick as a medium weight TKD vee neck dobok. It is essentially just a plain cross over gi like you'd see in a karate school but with the black diamond pattern.

    I now have a 'heavy' black with white diamond pattern HKD dobok, but it is not as heavy as a judogi. It is like a heavy karate gi.

    Most hapkido schools, to my knowledge, do not use hogu. Also, tourament fighting is not an integral part of hapkido the way that it is with taekwondo. Certainly, hogu can be adopted for use (and is), but where I learned, we did not use hogu.

    As far as free sparring, we did light contact striking mixed with the techniques from the hoshinsul. Cups and a mouthpiece were all that were used. High belts would do full contact and wore gloves, instep pads, and headgear in addition.

    There is no standard "HKD" sparring gear the way that there is in Taekwondo because there is no large organized sanctioning body that is requiring it.

    Daniel
     
  8. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

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    Moo Sool Sa makes a Judo Federation Sanctioned heavy top thats awesome or just step up and get the Mizuno Yawara.
     
  9. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    Have you or can you ask your instructor why he chose that as the school uniform? I've been to lots of Hapkido schools in Korea, but I don't think I ever saw that type of uniform used. Mostly it was judo uniforms, that KHF style uniform, or the Kuk Sool black uniforms. Some styles wore different colored uniforms, but I don't remember what the material was made out of. I remember one student bought the black with white cross stitch uniform for GM Ji for his birthday, but he never wore it.
     
  10. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    I used to visit the Moo Sool Sa store in Seoul whenever I went to Korea, but the last time they moved locations and I couldn't find the new store. Moo Sool Sa is basically a Hapkido oriented store. There was a Kumdo store very close by and I think that one moved too. Very cool specialty stores.
     
  11. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    So far as I know, it is a continuation of what he was doing with taekwondo doboks; geub grade students wore plain white vee necks and yudanja wore a black vee necks. He has since switched back to yudanja wearing white vee necks with black collars.

    With HKD, he simply continued to have geub grade students in white and dan grades in black. As of last night, he has all new student doboks which are plain black with the school logo on the back and no cross stitching. I was told that the new doboks are thicker and the black color is easier to keep clean.

    Daniel
     
  12. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    Why the use of the cross stitched uniforms though? Did he have a reason for using that. Is he a member of the Jidokwan for example?
     
  13. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    Nope. When I asked him about kwans back in 2004, he said that his master had been Kang duk won.

    I did not see him last night, but as I said, I'm 100% sure that he chose them because it seems to be generally accepted as the hapkido uniform. Most sites that have a specific HKD dobok are selling the cross stitched dobok, either white with black or black with white. As of Monday, all HKD students are getting a black crossover with the school logo on the back and no cross stitching, and he is wearing the same dobok, but with a US and a Korean flag on the upper left.

    Not sure if it is a regional thing, but a lot of the schools in my area have their instructional staff in black and students in white, the blackbelts and staff in black and geub/kyu grades in white, or staff, blackbelts and black belt club members in black and geub/kyu grades in white. Some schools put assistant instructors in red. Doesn't seem to be art specific either.

    Daniel
     
  14. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    I know Sang Moo Sa does that, market the cross stitch uniform as a Hapkido uniform, and maybe some others out there. But Moo Sool Sa doesn't sell that one. they sell the KHF dobok and also the Sinmoo Hapkido dobok as well. I made my embroidered belts from moo sool sa a couple few times. They have weird sizing for belts though, it isn't the standard 1,2, 3, or 160, 170 cm.
     
  15. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

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    Thanks a lot, everybody. I appreciate your input and your help. :)

    Thanks for the insight, Mr. Sullivan. It's very much appreciated.

    I saw a few videos on YouTube of HapKiDo sparring and it looked quite cool, like TKD competition with sweeps and submissions. I was thinking, actually, that it'd be a great ruleset to try in a TKD class to incorporate our hoshinsul techniques somewhat. Our students like to spar and our head Master seems to have an interest in HKD, so why not?
     
  16. goingd

    goingd Purple Belt

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    When I teach Hapkido techniques in my Taekwondo classes I rarely teach grabs against parts of the clothing. Rather, I try to limit grabs to parts of the body like the arm, shoulder and throat, so our Taekwondo dobock adequate.

    When I was coming up in Hapkido our sparring was more similar to Judo sparring than to Taekwondo. There was no gear, light contact strikes were allowed, but the focus was on standing grappling, but smaller joint locks, done carefully, were allowed.
     
  17. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

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    Shame,
    now that everyone take BJJ lots of folks come to class and grab the heck out folks shirts and doboks as a first technique. Trapping a hand wrapped in your uniform and spinning can really make a big guy light up.
    Teach everything so it always passed on and only edit in real application. Its fine to favor a couple of moves for your self defense but know them all.
     
  18. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    Why?

    Daniel
     
  19. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

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    I have to admit that my preferred self defense is a really good kick to the midsection :). SD has not historically been a major part of my interests although I have taken a vested interest in it lately.

    I'm not teaching Judo or Jiu Jitsu grips, just defense from the lapel grab. It's just TKD hoshinsul that we lifted from HKD. I don't really want to tear my dobok or my student's doboks when they're almost all also Judoka as well and have the heavy Gi's anyway.
     
  20. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    One of my students who is in law enforcement used a lapel-assisted arm bar I taught him to disarm a suspect with a knife. The guy was wearing a leather jacket at the time that provided an excellent place to grip and he started the physical encounter by likewise grabbing the cop by his shirt!

    The old classical techniques exist for a reason. I agree they are important and should be practiced vigorously.123
     

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