Do We Need These Things?

[MJS]

Over on another forum, the question was asked:

Do we need gis, belts and titles, to do Kajukenbo?

I'm putting this here, so everyone (KenMpo and Kaju) can comment.

The replies over there ranged from it depends on what you're teaching to no, we dont need that stuff.


IMO, I agree with the ones who said no. I dont walk around with a gi on 24/7, so for me, I'd rather train in something that I wear often. As for the belts...nothing but a piece of cloth tied around your waist. Personally, I'd rather wear a plain BB, no stripes, nothing. After all, its your skill that makes the difference, not the fancy stripes. Dont 'ohhh and ahhhh' me with that stuff, make me 'ohh and ahh' over what you can teach me. As for titles....my first name will do just fine.

Thoughts?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I'm not Kempo, but I'd like to comment, if I could...

I like wearing a gi in my dojo. No, I don't walk around in one. But it's a very utilitarian set of clothes for the kind of stuff we do. I'd hate to wear my usual street attire - chinos and a polo shirt. Doubt if that would last long; I'd be buying new clothes every week!

Not to say that there isn't something to be gained by doing some training in street attire; I have for sure noticed how my kicks (especially) differ when I am encumbered by less-flexible jeans and wearing relatively heavy shoes. Everything feels a tad different, my timing and balance are different too. I can see the value in training in street clothes from time to time.

As to belts; when I started Isshin-Ryu two years ago, I didn't think I'd much care if I stayed a white belt, so long as I kept learning and progressing. Now I find myself pleased to be in line for promotion to brown belt; it means something serious in my dojo, and if my sensei finds me worthy of it, that means something very important to me. Don't really care for any other reason. I don't wear my belt outside the dojo, nobody would ever know what belt I hold except for my friends on MT.

 

[CoryKS]

Don't know about the titles or the belt, but we do a lot of grabbing and pulling and without that heavy gi fabric it seems like we'd be destroying a LOT of t-shirts.

 

[MJS]

I'm not Kempo, but I'd like to comment, if I could...

By all means, comment as you'd like.

I like wearing a gi in my dojo. No, I don't walk around in one. But it's a very utilitarian set of clothes for the kind of stuff we do. I'd hate to wear my usual street attire - chinos and a polo shirt. Doubt if that would last long; I'd be buying new clothes every week!

Not to say that there isn't something to be gained by doing some training in street attire; I have for sure noticed how my kicks (especially) differ when I am encumbered by less-flexible jeans and wearing relatively heavy shoes. Everything feels a tad different, my timing and balance are different too. I can see the value in training in street clothes from time to time.

Hmm...I probably should've clarified. Lets change the work out clothing from gis to simply a t-shirt, sweats, sweatshirt, etc. Sorry, should've been more clear.

As to belts; when I started Isshin-Ryu two years ago, I didn't think I'd much care if I stayed a white belt, so long as I kept learning and progressing. Now I find myself pleased to be in line for promotion to brown belt; it means something serious in my dojo, and if my sensei finds me worthy of it, that means something very important to me. Don't really care for any other reason. I don't wear my belt outside the dojo, nobody would ever know what belt I hold except for my friends on MT.

Dont get me wrong, I'm proud and happy to get rank as well, but I view it as, when it happens, it happens. Some people tend to be more fixated with it than others. Not talking about you, just sayin'.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

While I am not Kempo or Kanjukenbo I will definitely give my impression.

No you really do not need these things at all. Through the years I have trained in street clothes from jeans and a sweatshirt to shorts and t-shirts, to military BDU's, winter coats and of course your standard heavyweight martial arts uniform. Through the years I have destroyed a lot of t-shirts. Particularly when grappling and having someone pull on them. Rash guards last better but... they still are not super strong. My favorite thing to train in is a heavyweight martial arts uniform that is black so that it does not show stains and blood. Through the years a tough black uniform has always served me well. Like you MJS I am all about plain, no patches, no stripes, nothing gaudy. Just simple colors.

 

[Blindside]

Well, I certainly liked the belt system when i was a kenpo underbelt, it really helped me target my goals about what I had to learn, and what I had to do to accomplish it. Heck, I have an old excel file that I targeted my progression from yellow to black by month of the year. It was certainly an aid for me.

As for uniforms, belts, formalities, and titles, well they all seemed part and parcel to the art, and served to make a "study" mentality where you mentally set aside time to focus on the art.

Nowadays I mostly teach an art with no uniforms, no ranks, and no use of titles in the classroom, and we get along just fine.

 

[John Bishop]

A gi is just a training uniform. It serves several purposes. In a traditional system, it's a uniform that shows your rank and system. It's a way to signify your being part of a certain system, organization, and school. Belonging to something bigger then yourself. A sense of pride for some.
And it's workout gear that's designed to take the rigors of your workout. In Kajukenbo there's a lot of contact, grabbing, throwing, and grappling. One could easily go thru 2-3 shirts per workout, and split a pair of pants. Sure clothes get torn and shredded in a real fight. But why ruin several pieces of clothing a week, when you can wear a heavyweight gi for years?
When I work out at the gym, I don't wear street clothes. When I go on long mountain bike rides, I don't wear street clothes.
A gi's just a training uniform. People need to get over this thing about ranks and formalities. If you don't care for it, train in a system or gym that doesn't use gi's, ranks, or such.
I hear people talking all the time about how they don't believe in ranks, and how much of a ego trip wearing rank is. Funny thing is these are usually the people who are the most vocal to anyone who will listen about their own martial prowess.
So who's the humble man? The one who wears a 7th, 8th, 9th degree belt in his school, but most of the people he meets have no idea he does martial arts? Or, the guy who trains in the t-shirt and board shorts, and makes sure everyone he comes in contact with knows he's a fighter/martial artist?

 

[Omar B]

A gi also helps mindset. I find that in and out of my gi there's a stark difference in my mindset and personality. It's a very serious no BS attitude that's ready to do nothing but train.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I'm not Kempo, but I'd like to comment, if I could...

I like wearing a gi in my dojo. No, I don't walk around in one. But it's a very utilitarian set of clothes for the kind of stuff we do. I'd hate to wear my usual street attire - chinos and a polo shirt. Doubt if that would last long; I'd be buying new clothes every week!

Not to say that there isn't something to be gained by doing some training in street attire; I have for sure noticed how my kicks (especially) differ when I am encumbered by less-flexible jeans and wearing relatively heavy shoes. Everything feels a tad different, my timing and balance are different too. I can see the value in training in street clothes from time to time.

As to belts; when I started Isshin-Ryu two years ago, I didn't think I'd much care if I stayed a white belt, so long as I kept learning and progressing. Now I find myself pleased to be in line for promotion to brown belt; it means something serious in my dojo, and if my sensei finds me worthy of it, that means something very important to me. Don't really care for any other reason. I don't wear my belt outside the dojo, nobody would ever know what belt I hold except for my friends on MT.

Aren't Chino's a Sinanju rank, just below that of a flowerey Kimono?
Sean

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't have a problem with wearing some kind of uniform, but I find the gi to be uncomfortable. Sure, it's useful for standing up to rough workouts, but I don't feel like I move comfortably in them. Don't really like the belts either, they kind of feel like they are in the way.

I prefer a simple T-shirt and workout pants. I kinda like the black cotton kung fu pants, and shoes. Loose, easy to move, comfortable, no binding belt.

Rank has uses, tho the longer I'm in it, the less I care about it and don't really care to wear it.

If I had to vote one way or the other, I'd vote get rid of them.

 

[Flying Crane]

I hear people talking all the time about how they don't believe in ranks, and how much of a ego trip wearing rank is. Funny thing is these are usually the people who are the most vocal to anyone who will listen about their own martial prowess.
So who's the humble man? The one who wears a 7th, 8th, 9th degree belt in his school, but most of the people he meets have no idea he does martial arts? Or, the guy who trains in the t-shirt and board shorts, and makes sure everyone he comes in contact with knows he's a fighter/martial artist?

There are also those who don't bother to wear the rank, and who keep a low profile and likewise don't advertise the fact.

 

[Omar B]

I don't have a problem with wearing some kind of uniform, but I find the gi to be uncomfortable. Sure, it's useful for standing up to rough workouts, but I don't feel like I move comfortably in them. Don't really like the belts either, they kind of feel like they are in the way.
I prefer a simple T-shirt and workout pants. I kinda like the black cotton kung fu pants, and shoes. Loose, easy to move, comfortable, no binding belt.
Rank has uses, tho the longer I'm in it, the less I care about it and don't really care to wear it.
If I had to vote one way or the other, I'd vote get rid of them.

You think the gi is uncomfortable? I'm the complete opposite, I love my gi, even my morning runs/workout at the park I wear a pair of black gi pants.

 

[Carol]

Personally I don't find gis to be comfortable either.

Most men would be probably not be comfortable given clothes originally cut for a woman that have been re-labeled as "unisex". Likewise, I'm not comfortable in clothing originally cut for a man. I'm simply not built like one.

When I was able to attend a school on a regular basis, being in uniform and seeing everyone in uniform did help my mindset...esp. as I was new to the arts at the time.

Mentally, I think it had a positive impact on my focus. It definitely lead me to view my dojo as a bit of a sanctuary, where I could escape the rest of the world and focus on my training. At the time, I needed that perhaps more than I care to admit.

If I had a choice, my preference would be a school t-shirt and black workout pants of my own choosing.

 

[Mark Jordan]

The one who wears a 7th, 8th, 9th degree belt in his school, but most of the people he meets have no idea he does martial arts. - in my opinion, this is a humble guy as opposed to the other one mentioned.

 

[MJS]

A gi is just a training uniform. It serves several purposes. In a traditional system, it's a uniform that shows your rank and system. It's a way to signify your being part of a certain system, organization, and school. Belonging to something bigger then yourself. A sense of pride for some.
And it's workout gear that's designed to take the rigors of your workout. In Kajukenbo there's a lot of contact, grabbing, throwing, and grappling. One could easily go thru 2-3 shirts per workout, and split a pair of pants. Sure clothes get torn and shredded in a real fight. But why ruin several pieces of clothing a week, when you can wear a heavyweight gi for years?
When I work out at the gym, I don't wear street clothes. When I go on long mountain bike rides, I don't wear street clothes.
A gi's just a training uniform. People need to get over this thing about ranks and formalities. If you don't care for it, train in a system or gym that doesn't use gi's, ranks, or such.
I hear people talking all the time about how they don't believe in ranks, and how much of a ego trip wearing rank is. Funny thing is these are usually the people who are the most vocal to anyone who will listen about their own martial prowess.
So who's the humble man? The one who wears a 7th, 8th, 9th degree belt in his school, but most of the people he meets have no idea he does martial arts? Or, the guy who trains in the t-shirt and board shorts, and makes sure everyone he comes in contact with knows he's a fighter/martial artist?

Just to clarify: When I teach class, I wear a gi, and my belt. But, I should still be able to conduct the same class, in a pair of sweats and a T, minus the belt, and still demonstrate skill, knowledge, etc. I take my Kenpo private lessons in gi pants and a t shirt. The same with my Arnis lessons.

As far as being humble goes, I think that both of the scenarios you listed could apply. In other words...even the guy with the board shorts and t-shirt, should be able to be humble.

I'm sure we've both seen people at seminars and camps, standing around, making it known that they're X rank. Its those people, IMO, that aren't the humble ones. Its those people who, just by their actions, have to let people know they're big and bad. Why?

 

[MJS]

Personally I don't find gis to be comfortable either.

Most men would be probably not be comfortable given clothes originally cut for a woman that have been re-labeled as "unisex". Likewise, I'm not comfortable in clothing originally cut for a man. I'm simply not built like one.

When I was able to attend a school on a regular basis, being in uniform and seeing everyone in uniform did help my mindset...esp. as I was new to the arts at the time.

Mentally, I think it had a positive impact on my focus. It definitely lead me to view my dojo as a bit of a sanctuary, where I could escape the rest of the world and focus on my training. At the time, I needed that perhaps more than I care to admit.

If I had a choice, my preference would be a school t-shirt and black workout pants of my own choosing.

Nice pic. This is how one of my Arnis teachers ran his classes....school T, and pants such as we see above.

 

[Mark Jordan]

The one who wears a 7th, 8th, 9th degree belt in his school, but most of the people he meets have no idea he does martial arts. - in my opinion, this is a humble guy as opposed to the other one mentioned.

 

[Big Don]

Do we need them as in are they absolutely necessary to teach, learn or practice, of course not. My gi is comfortable, for me. Some people may not like them, but, I never found spandex or silk to be comfortable, everything is personal preference... When you get down to it, we could practice buck naked or in three piece suits.
that said, I now continue to the smart *** portion of my post, because I just have to...

All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buds, and I'm fine.

 

[LawDog]

A Gi, it is a uniform, in that everyone is looks "uniform" within a given structure/setting. It takes away from the "look at me" ego thing
Belt ranking is a standerdized level of developement. In a large classroom setting it is easier for an instructor to see what level each student is at. Today in many modern schools it has been lowered down to mere ego.
Patches, sometimes students / instructors can get carried away.

Training is what you do and not what you wear.
:ultracool

 

[Big Don]

training is what you do and not what you wear.
:ultracool

qft