Disrespect? Am I wrong here?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Paul Chadwick, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Paul Chadwick

    Paul Chadwick White Belt

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    OK, a little bit of background information.....

    I go to a small Kung Fu school a few miles away from my home. A half-mile further down the road, there is a school which has, what can only be described as "dubious" standards. The other school is part of a franchise of schools, and has no governing body covering their gradings, whereas the school I attend is part of the CMAA of Great Britain.

    I have been told by former pupils of the franchised school, that they offer "fast track" ways to black belt and, for a price, will progress you at a heightened pace. Also, for every set number of new students you introduce, they will upgrade you a belt.

    Since the school I attend has none of those 'offers', and prefers the students to earn their gradings, I suggested to our Sifu that we should send them a friendly challenge to some sparring bouts (although I think they would probably decline). Mostly to see if their teaching methods produce useful fighters.

    In talking to a friend of mine (who is Chinese) He became highly argumentative, and said that this was disrespectful to the franchised club, mentioning that it would be improper to challenge them, as Kung Fu should be used as self-defence and not an aggressive style.

    My opinion was "Why practice a martial art if you never get the chance to use it?"

    Plus, Kung Fu movies seem to be full of different styles fighting for dominance and to see who is the best.

    So, in order to settle this, I'd like your opinions. Am I wrong to want to challenge this other club or is this part of the natural order of things?

    Your comments are invited. Thanks.
     
  2. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    "for a price"

    Its a McDojo. Leave it be. Live and let live.
     
  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Sorry to sound negative but 'challenging' another school like that is definitely not on. They may not be a 'fighting' school, many people train martial arts without the intention of fighting. They may well be quite good at what they do but it may also not be what you do. Many clubs and schools in the UK have no governing body, they like being independant, it doesn't mean they are pants.
    Kung Fu films like most films are fiction and shouldn't be taken as a way to behave. If it is a McDojo, it's no concern of yours, concentrate on your training, don't worry about theirs.
     
  4. seasoned

    seasoned MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    This was a norm back in the 60's with challenges. Heck there were times we would show up at another dojo uninvited. Those were different times, where now a days many problems can arise.

    Over many years my thinking has changed, where I feel that it is not our (any dojo) job to defame another school (business) and other wise draw attention to their credentials, teaching style, or lack of.

    My suggestion for your school would be to do what you do to the best of your ability, be involved with your community, take the high ground and let the chips fall where they may. Martial arts is a journey, some are ready some are not, down the road truth be told on it's own. Good luck............ :asian:
     
  5. mook jong man

    mook jong man Senior Master

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    You're going to end up in the big house , where you'll be able to have plenty of sparring bouts everyday.
     
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  6. WC_lun

    WC_lun Senior Master

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    Tend to your own house. It isn't your job to go challenge every Mcdojo out there. Sounds like your training is leaving you too much time on your hands if you have the time to worry about another school.
     
  7. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Dueling is for movies. It would be disrespectful to the other school, yes, but even more so to your own, that is should have a reputation of doing such things.
     
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ignore them. There's no way you can come out looking could if you start "challenging" people.
     
  9. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    This is not a movie and although I am not from Great Britain I doubt the fact you saw it in a movie is a justification to get in a fight.

    Also, historically (in China) challenge fights in CMA were damn serious, today they do not happen all that much but they are still damn serious. Someone will get hurt and there is also a rather high possibility of great embarrassment with the possible ending of ones source of income.

    Another thing to think about, there are no belt ranks in "Traditional" Chinese Martial arts so there could be a Chinese sifu somewhere, born, raised and trained in China thinking all of you are pretty silly.
     
  10. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    People have gotten killed for issuing challenges and I am not
    Talking ancient era. Even into the 20th century that happen.

    Growing up one of the worse offense you could do
    Was step on someone new shoe even if by accident.

    Maybe reconsider yourself and your motives.
     
  11. celtic_crippler

    celtic_crippler Senior Master

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    If you have that much desire to justify your training through fighting, then perhaps you're training in the wrong school/style/system

    Sounds like you might be better suited to a less traditional martial art; have you tried a MMA gym?
     
  12. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    In a real fight, no one wins and everyone loses.
     
  13. chinto

    chinto Senior Master

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    challenging is a bad idea! it can be considered very disrespectful, also as said, Martial arts are for self defense. Even untrained people manage to badly injure each other in fights, and a Challenge as I understand it, was in China a very very serious disrespect and usually ended in serious injury's for one or BOTH! Remember, "When two Tigers fight, One is dead, the other is Mortally wounded!" so I would say not a good thing and I if I were part of the school would not be part of such a thing.

    Grading for a price as said, McDojo, ignore it and live and let live. You must fight to survive when attacked, but otherwise why are you fighting?
     
  14. ATC

    ATC Senior Master

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    Yes, disrespectful to your school and their school. Don't do.
     
  15. SuperFLY

    SuperFLY Green Belt

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    you practice so you don't have to use it.

    martial arts (in a more traditional way) is more than just throwing punches and kicks. its a mentality, a quiet confidence.

    you should feel secure enough in yourself and your own training not to feel like you have to 'prove' yourself to another school or 'show them up'.

    it says a lot more about yourself/your school than it does about them.

    feel secure in your own training.

    if a student came to you and asked how you'd do it then by all means show them, but to go out of your way to impose your training on others is not the right attitude in my opinion
     
  16. Instructor

    Instructor Master Black Belt

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    Plus going around challenging people that are weaker than you is lame. That's just being a bully. So you can beat somebody up, big deal.

    "Knowing others is intelligence;
    knowing yourself is true wisdom.
    Mastering others is strength;
    mastering yourself is true power."

    Tao Te Ching
     
  17. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Of course there's the chance that while they may be a McDojo they may have some very good fighters so you could end up with egg on your face as well as a black eye.
    Not all McDojos are actually bad at teaching nor are they all ineffective at SD and sparring, it's often their marketing and payment systems that are dubious rather than their teaching.
     
  18. Aiki Lee

    Aiki Lee Master of Arts

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    I'm gonna go with what everyone else says and say it is rude, arrogant, and dangerous to challenge others. It sounds like you are trying to prove to yourself how much better you are than other people. Everyone questions the validity of their training at some point and the only way to get past it is to dive deeper into it and have faith in your teacher and your system.

    So this begs the question, why are you practicing martial arts?
     
  19. Koryu Rich

    Koryu Rich Yellow Belt

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    Are they?
     
  20. Koryu Rich

    Koryu Rich Yellow Belt

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    In this context I think I agree but not in all instances.


    That is part of it but it is also the part that can lead to blind faith and a lack of critical thinking. Exposure to other methodologies and systems provides a gauge with which to measure not only your training but also yourself.

    Having your head stuck in the sand at your own dojo will only get you so far, it's limiting and comfortable.123
     
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