Discussing a Myth: On Fighting

Discussion in 'Kenpo - (EPAK) Ed Parker's American Kenpo Karate S' started by Sami Ibrahim, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    Which martial artists are these? I've certainly never heard someone discuss how they have got the fighting part out of the way after two weeks of training.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Scars would be pretty close. But there are degrees.
     
  3. Sami Ibrahim

    Sami Ibrahim Green Belt

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    OK so I am a 33 year old man, approximately 240-250 pounds, 5' 11" with over a decade of military service and 27 years of Kenpo training, I have experience in wars and some bouncing and security work among other things. When I take a walk through a parking lot, or into an establishment serving alcohol or even just around my home what threat is going to require a "martial response" honestly it is not going to be a gold fish by comparison or even a school of gold fish, its going to be a shark or a frenzy of sharks. I think it is funny how some people bank on their future enemies being whelps they can easily overcome with a few days worth of practice when in reality if you ever do get confronted by an aggressive whelp, you can just slap them on the rump and make them stand in time out, you don't need to waste money training in a martial art for that kind of adversary. Underestimating enemies has constantly gotten people killed in my experience and that was despite the departed having decent training. If your going to take time out of your life to attend a martial arts training facility and put in the effort and energy day in and day out to learn a martial art, you may as well prepare yourself for criminals who have a long history of hurting people and knack for it, don't bet your life that because the enemy has not had martial arts training they are not a significant threat (if anything that makes them more of a threat). Best of luck to all of us on our training and lives.
     
  4. Sami Ibrahim

    Sami Ibrahim Green Belt

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    I posted this right after students from a very popular Kenpo lineage made such comments. I refrained from mentioning them directly because it would serve no positive purpose, my intent is simply to draw attention to the false idea, I am a little jealous of those of you who live in a universe where you never hear this kind of thing lol
     
  5. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    So you are talking about a few of people from one style?
     
  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah but you have two skill sets. Concepts and technical skills. Concepts are about unfair fights and all the schoolyard stuff.

    Technical ability generally needs to be trained in a sanitised manner.

    If you need to throw 3000 punches to be able to effectively punch. You can't train bare knuckle on a brick wall. Even if your end game is to hit bare knuckle.

    Then you take that usable skill and apply it to the situation. Work the concepts out.
     
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  7. Sami Ibrahim

    Sami Ibrahim Green Belt

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    Progressive training is fine as long as it eventually leads to realistic training not acceptance of mediocrity and comfort blanket statements about how "fighting" is no big deal and easily attained in a short time etc.
     
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  8. Sami Ibrahim

    Sami Ibrahim Green Belt

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    It has come up before from others and not just within the Kenpo Arts, I have personally witnessed it in many schools in America and Asia I guess it really matters to you how many people etc. So when I started this post it was about a popular American Kenpo lineage whose head instructor (a 10th degree black belt) is fond of making that statement and some of whose students now parrot statements along those same lines. having just heard those statements made, I thought I would post about it. I think the statement has a lot to do with commercialization, when making money and keeping paying customers happy is more important than preparing them for the real thing. (It has been some time since I posted on a large Martial Arts Forum like this one, What is your background Paul D.)
     
  9. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Master of Arts

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    Fighting is easy. It's similar to putting a wood beam on the ground and walking across it....simple. however put that same beam 5 stories up between two buildings and walk across. Not so easy when it actually matters.
    Problem with most people is they have no idea about reality. It's all theory in their heads.
     
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  10. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well, I also am unimpressed with a lot of the training that I see people doing. That doesn't mean that you are the only person who takes their training, and the realities of violence, seriously.

    There is plenty of room to discuss this stuff, but in the end, it is each persons responsibility to make decisions about their training, and the results that follow.
     
  11. Sami Ibrahim

    Sami Ibrahim Green Belt

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    I agree with you there is plenty of room to discuss this stuff and in the end each person is responsible for their own decisions and training choices, my old history teacher was fond of saying that we could do anything as long as we were willing to accept the consequences.
     
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  12. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    Different part of the world from me, so that explains it :)
     
  13. Headhunter

    Headhunter Master of Arts

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    This is an old thread but I just saw it and honestly I've trained with some top kenpo people. I started my training with lee wedlake who trained directly under ed Parker and he never said anything like that nor have any of the top people I've worked with. I'm not saying some wont say it but it's a lie a couple of individuals may say but it's absolutely not a rule for kenpo
     
  14. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    As an old Kenpo person, I have worked to master the idea of hurting people without hurting myself. o_O
     
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  15. DanT

    DanT Black Belt

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    It's like any sport, do you honestly believe a professional soccer player could take a year off and then come back at the top of his game? Obviously not. Skills have to be maintained otherwise they decrease. It's just like paddling a boat upstream, the moment you stop, you go back. Fighting is no different, it takes years of training to go from average joe to a "decent" fighter. I honestly believe that however long it takes to acquire a skill, it takes half as long to lose it. If it took you 1 year to go from benching 100 lbs to 200 lbs, if you stop working out, almost guaranteed within 6 months you'll be back to where you started.
     
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  16. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    I think it's lost faster than that, actually. But, it comes back faster once you've gone up the hill, as well.
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Not linearly, though, in either uphill or down. Speaking of the degradation of skill, it drops slowly (first month), then quickly (first year or two), then more slowly on a curving slope. With long-term skill development, it's never entirely lost (I haven't played soccer in many years, but can still dribble, kick, and defend as well as most folks who've played just a few years). Fitness, of course, is a different matter. All of fitness can, in fact, be lost if one tries hard enough, though there tends to be some natural inclination after many years (my legs are still quite strong, in spite of the fact I don't do leg strength work because of my knees).
     
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  18. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Its a mistake, I think, to equate what we need and do to the skills of someone "at the top if their game."

    I also think the comment abive regarding fitness is very relevant. Skills don't diminish but ones fitness to execute certainly does.
     
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  19. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    Actual motor skills take a while to fade. Conditioning goes first, then reflexes. If you've trained long enough so that you can throw a good clean technical punch or kick, then that skill will last quite a long time even if you don't keep up your practice. Your timing will lose its precision, your reflexes will get slow, and you'll be sucking wind the first time you come back to a hard training session, but the fundamental movement skills don't disappear that quickly.

    As far as a professional athlete taking time off and coming back "at the top of his game", you have to remember that elite professional athletes are typically pushing the limits of human capacity and their success or failure is determined by tiny percentages in their performance. An athlete operating at 50% of potential is a hobbyist. An athlete operating at 80% of potential is a high-level amateur. An athlete operating at 95% of potential may be a professional. An athlete operating at 99% of potential is an elite professional. An athlete operating at 99.9% of potential is likely a champion. Maintaining that last few percentage points or fractions of a percentage point does require constant practice and losing a couple of percentage points can mean the difference between a loss and a win even if the athlete retains 95+% of his skill.
     
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  20. wingerjim

    wingerjim Green Belt

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    Teach
    them to fight or teach them to win a fight? Big difference.
     

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