Disadvantages of Kenpo?

[kenpo12]

That's because you don't know what the terminology is for. They are words to describe principles, concepts and theories. This is the heart of the art and they are also considered basics in my book. It is not too smart to challenge someone who knows a lot more than you do, the more concepts, theories and priniciples one can manifest to the physical state the more lethal that person is.

I never said that. One of the things I like about kenpo is the terminology, but I feel some people get too caught up in the semantics and details rather than manifesting that physical side. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I have to agree with Kenpo 12...remember the thread on the "Gaseous Phase of Motion"? C'mon!!! We can theorize ourselves blue in the face! Mat time is more valuable than internet time! Too bad I have to sit at my desk and pretend to work 40 hours a week--I'd rather be training. Anyway, gotta sign-off, pickup the kids at daycare, bring 'em home, hand 'em off to the wife and then go train. Bye.

 

[rmcrobertson]

"you don't know what the terminology is for. They are words to describe principles, concepts and theories. This is the heart of the art...."

Um...ah...I yield to nobody, nobody at all, in a willingness to theorize abstrusely--and I think I can tell you that Matt 12 knows a fair amount about such theorizing--but I can't agree that either "words," or, "principles, concepts or theories," are "the heart of the art." Maybe its brain...

But the general take I've always herd is that a serious technique line remains, "the heart of the art," at least insofar as training is concerned.

There is also such a thing as pseudo-theory, and such a thing as double-talk, and such a thing as in-group jargon, and such a thing as deliberately-obscurantist language.

Theory should make understanding easier, not harder.

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
I can't agree that either "words," or, "principles, concepts or theories," are "the heart of the art." Maybe its brain...

But the general take I've always herd is that a serious technique line remains, "the heart of the art," at least insofar as training is concerned.

Theory should make understanding easier, not harder.

I believe that 'action' is THE heart of the art.
Theory, concepts, principles, opinion, paradigm, philosophy....etc. are tools, useful only so far as they lead to a better dynamic expression of Kenpo in action.
((Thus my cat in motion avatar))
Your Brother
John

 

[psi_radar]

What motions do you find awkward?

Some of the footwork, particularly the buckles. I think it's because I have a tendency toward bad posture (leaning in), plus I get plantar fasciitis just about as soon as I step on a mat with bare feet, so I think there's some reflex from that. When I started I had a lot of trouble hitting a forward bow, though it's not a problem now. Like I said, it's probably a personal thing.

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by psi_radar
Like I said, it's probably a personal thing.

So really it's more of a personal challenge toward executing Kenpo well rather than a "disadvantage of Kenpo"?

Your Brother
John

 

[psi_radar]

So really it's more of a personal challenge toward executing Kenpo well rather than a "disadvantage of Kenpo"?

Yes, that's true, though I've heard this refrain from a few others. I don't think there's anything natural about a forward bow. When would we do that normally? Knee bent, obscuring front toes, rear foot facing forward with a heel down, hips engaged. I don't think I had put my body in that position before in my life before Kenpo. It has its place and all, but my point is that this stuff is not (all) natural, it needs to be learned and practiced. Otherwise we'd be able to pick it up in a week. That might be considered a disadvantage, maybe not.

It's possible I may have had more difficulty with it than others, and I'm just projecting. Anyone else out there who will fess up to being footwork-challenged?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

psi_radar: I think if you looked at other "Karate" styles you would find that Kenpo's stances are shorter, taller, more comfortable, and more natural. Compare the forward bow stance to a Japanes Front stance for instance. Japanese stances make you feel like you are glued to a train track. Kenpo stances provide much more mobility. Kenpo's stances may be a new and unnatural experience, but compared to any other traditional standup martial art, Kenpo stances are an advantage not a disadvantage.

 

[psi_radar]

Oh yeah, I know in comparison they're a lot more comfortable than other traditional arts. And I can do them now (otherwise I'd feel pretty silly wearing my belt), they're no problem once I practiced them 6,000 times. Please don't think of this as a major criticism. Like I said, I love Kenpo. The stances are certainly effective, they work for sure.

My point is that not all elements of Kenpo come naturally. This is a broad generalization but I think it is supported by the fact it takes a beginning martial artist a couple of years to utilize it effectively as an optimised method of self defense.

Not a big deal if you're living my relatively peaceful life but I'd probably pick something different if I had no experience and was, say, convicted of a crime and on my way to prison or sent on assignment to a war or similarly dangerous location.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

psi_radar: I understand your point. Kenpo isn't perfect and it certainly isn't easy to learn (despite all the conceptual explanations and curriculum organization).

 

[psi_radar]

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by psi_radar
Yes, that's true, though I've heard this refrain from a few others. I don't think there's anything natural about a forward bow. When would we do that normally? Knee bent, obscuring front toes, rear foot facing forward with a heel down, hips engaged. I don't think I had put my body in that position before in my life before Kenpo. It has its place and all, but my point is that this stuff is not (all) natural, it needs to be learned and practiced. Otherwise we'd be able to pick it up in a week. That might be considered a disadvantage, maybe not.

It's possible I may have had more difficulty with it than others, and I'm just projecting. Anyone else out there who will fess up to being footwork-challenged?

Oh I don't know , have you ever tried pushing a car? Its forward bow city.:asian:
Sean

 

[psi_radar]

Hah hah, yes, I suppose pushing a car could employ a forward bow--when done properly! I guess I always pushed cars like a white belt.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Brother John
I believe that 'action' is THE heart of the art.
Theory, concepts, principles, opinion, paradigm, philosophy....etc. are tools, useful only so far as they lead to a better dynamic expression of Kenpo in action.
((Thus my cat in motion avatar))
Your Brother
John

Thanks for proving my point. In order to beat action you must meet action. CONCEPT.

Um...ah...I yield to nobody, nobody at all, in a willingness to theorize abstrusely--and I think I can tell you that Matt 12 knows a fair amount about such theorizing--but I can't agree that either "words," or, "principles, concepts or theories," are "the heart of the art." Maybe its brain...

But the general take I've always herd is that a serious technique line remains, "the heart of the art," at least insofar as training is concerned.

A technique line? Oh gawd, one drill is the heart of the art? Mushin is the heart of all arts and it is a CONCEPT. So much for your abstract thought... You are concrete dude through and through. "I've always herd", aren't you like 50 something? Do you not have ideas of your own? I am thoroughly bored with hearing the standard canned kenpo you spew at every oppertunity. Just once I would like to read something original about AK from something you wrote. Just once and without six paragraphs from the grapes of wrath mixed in it.

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Rainman
A technique line? Oh gawd, one drill is the heart of the art? Mushin is the heart of all arts and it is a CONCEPT. So much for your abstract thought... You are concrete dude through and through. "I've always herd", aren't you like 50 something? Do you not have ideas of your own? I am thoroughly bored with hearing the standard canned kenpo you spew at every oppertunity. Just once I would like to read something original about AK from something you wrote. Just once and without six paragraphs from the grapes of wrath mixed in it.

You are out of line Rainman.
You are smarter and more mature than this.

Get on decaf
take a deep breath
and play nice.

I often respect your views, and I know that Robert can rub the wrong way at times, but this venom solves nothing.
Just once I'd like us all to be able to go very far in a discussion without any hatred or animosity expressed.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Rainman
Thanks for proving my point. In order to beat action you must meet action. CONCEPT.

I didn't mention or even hint at this concept. I don't see what you are getting at.
I was saying that the dynamic expression of physical action/Kenpo is what's really at the heart of Kenpo... everything else is window dressing.

Your Brother
John

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rainman
Thanks for proving my point.

But the general take I've always herd... "I've always herd"...

This reminds me of the time Santa put all his reindeer on the space shuttle so they could be the "herd shot 'round the world."
Sean

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
This reminds me of the time Santa put all his reindeer on the space shuttle so they could be the "herd shot 'round the world."
Sean

 

[Brother John]

so there....



take THAT

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hey, that was funny. You are a little quick on the bunny trigger