Difficult Techs.

[dcence]

Remember your never going to be attacked with a step through punch on the street, so there really isn't any hurry to train against them, or attempt techniques against them, for that matter.
Sean

Whenever I am teaching something against a step through punch, I try to remember that a punch can originate from the lead hand as easily as from the rear hand. Step throughs allow that perspective.

 

[satans.barber]

The way I proactice Dance of Death, if the person throws a cross then I do teh technique normally, but if they throw a step through by mistake then I sweep them by taking my right leg behind their's and striking/controlling at the neck with my right hand (sort of like Tripping Arrow). If it was a step through roundhouse I'd need to do soemthing completely different though as we tend to block with a shuffle, parry and strike all at once rather than breaking it down, which only works on straight punches.

Ian.

 

[Shodan]

Does "Circling Windmills" have another name? I have not heard of that one before- maybe I have not learned it yet.

As for me, I've always had trouble with the last part of Sqautting Sacrifice (trying to keep hold of the leg while reaching for the arm or clothing), Twist of Fate (I have a hard time pulling this one off without throwing myself off balance!!), since knee surgery, landing solidly into the front twist stance after spinning around in Flight to Freedom and- I can't think of the name right now, but the one where you pick the attacker up and twirl around in a circle and smash them against a wall- that one is tough if the attacker is bigger and heavier than you are. I think there's another version of the same tech. where you still pick them up, but just fall back onto them with an elbow smash or something- haven't done that one in a looooooonggggggggggg time.

My least favorite tech. is probably Twist of Fate cuz I don't think it would be something I would ever attempt on an attacker- especially when there are other targets available.

:asian: :karate:

 

[rmcrobertson]

Huh. I don't find, "Circling Windmills," to be all that big a deal. Is the dummy shoving, then overhead punching, or what?

With, "Squatting," if I might suggest, the "grab," on the leg's very similar to the one in, "Dance of Death." Perhaps here too, the issue's with the dummying...does the dummy try to push up/get up, which triggers the left step-through?

And "Twirling..." well, a) lift with your legs, not with your back, and b) to get 'em up, try kneeling on their right leg a la, "Grip of Death;" c) if they're really big aand you're not, try just upending them...preferably, head first into a fire hydrant (OK, not while practicing).

"Twist," well, I've never loved it, largely because I'm worried for the dummy. Maybe make sure that you enforce the ol' Italian salute to cross their arms? Maybe use that side-kick at the thigh to ensure that you get 'em turned? Maybe fiddle and step outside rather than under the arms?

"Flight?" Well, I originally learned the technique with a twist too...maybe try forward bows, and scrape and anchor down on their arm as you cross out...

Pardon me for saying so, but many of the issues resolve with some haardd work on stance sets and forms...

 

[MJS]

You guys are dead wrong. The hardest technique to pull off in the EPAK curriculum is Circling Windmills bar-none. In all the tests, in all the seminars they tried to teach it, whereever, including Pasadena, I never once saw it done where I would say -- "Yeah, that could work." At some point you have to say, "Dude that technique isn't happening."

As far as Dance of Death, you better learn how to do it with the right leg forward, because you can't say to the guy half way through the technique when you finally realize their right leg is in front -- "Hey man, switch your legs, would you?" Changing the attack is the easy way out. Learn to pull the leg laterally, instead of straight up. Also, make an adjustment step with your left leg moving down the circle as you lift and elbow. Or after the reverse handsword to the goods, move into Brushing the Storm, sweeping the ankle with your right hand (same ting).

Have you ever contemplated -- "maybe the technique is the problem, not me"? Just don't feel bad if a technique has never felt like you could really wear it.

Derek

Gotta agree with the above statement. Being able to adapt to whats happening is a key factor. Like Derek said, you can't ask the guy to switch legs, or arms, you need to react to what is happening at that time.

Mike

 

[rmcrobertson]

Sure, of course, Mike.

But the techniques are teaching tools. Be a little careful, maybe, about what you throw out of the system.

 

[pete]

... and, if I may add, equal care to what is kept in the system and its application...

 

[rmcrobertson]

Pete, how 'bout if we compromise on knowledgeable care of both?

I realize that this may get me called a fetishist by other folks than you, but so far, every single problem I've had with a technique traces back to my or somebody else's ignorance.

And I write this as somebody who has always thought of, "Piercing Lance," as kenpo's version of Snoopy on his doghouse doing his buzzard imitation...

 

[dcence]

Circling Windmills -- I actually like the first few moves, but come on, after 6 eye slices in a row, you have to ask yourself, is this really going to be effective?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Um...are all those eye slices? I'd thought that--in at least some of the applications--the later two, 'eye slices,' were grabs/manipulations of the hands that come up in response to the opening two eye slices...which, themselves, might be responses to a hand coming up in response to the right hammer/forearm?

 

[Thesemindz]

When I tried thinking of techniques I had trouble with, Circling Windmills never came to mind. We teach this technique as an opponent pushing you up against a wall and then executing a right step thru punch to your head to try to drill the back of your favorite skull into the drywall. Instead of checking his arm, try grabbing it at the wrist to hold him in place while you hammer him and slice him up.

The technique I've always had trouble with is Twist of Fate. Sometimes I can pull it off with ease, other times I couldn't get my opponent to twist for cash. I'll have to give Robert's suggestion a try. I've worked with some guys who are so stiff in the torso and hips, that they just don't twist like that. Just means I have to hit em somewhere else. Oh well, that's life.

-Rob

 

[MJS]

Sure, of course, Mike.

But the techniques are teaching tools. Be a little careful, maybe, about what you throw out of the system.

Robert- I agree! I wasnt talking about throwing anything out. I was referring to making sure that the students can adapt to the situation, rather than stand there, scratching their head and saying, "Gee, what do I do now? My attacker stepped in wrong." I've seen that so many times, it isnt funny.

Mike

 

[Seig]

Robert- I agree! I wasnt talking about throwing anything out. I was referring to making sure that the students can adapt to the situation, rather than stand there, scratching their head and saying, "Gee, what do I do now? My attacker stepped in wrong." I've seen that so many times, it isnt funny.

Mike

When I was a youngster comming up through the colored ranks, my instructor always used to yell, "When in doubt, hit them!" It seems to have worked.

 

[MJS]

When I was a youngster comming up through the colored ranks, my instructor always used to yell, "When in doubt, hit them!" It seems to have worked.

I agree!! Doing something is definately better than doing nothing!

Mike

 

[dcence]

Um...are all those eye slices? I'd thought that--in at least some of the applications--the later two, 'eye slices,' were grabs/manipulations of the hands that come up in response to the opening two eye slices...which, themselves, might be responses to a hand coming up in response to the right hammer/forearm?

They are six eye slices if you are doing it as written (which I have never considered binding....) Here is what I have as far as it is written (see moves 7-10 below) which is how I was taught the technique -- and you know the quote from Yul Brenner in The Ten Commandments, "So let it be written; so let it be done" but we all know what happened to him in the movie....

Again, I do like the first few moves of the technique, but I just can't see doing 6 eye slices. Maybe it is good hand dexterity training, but I think Finger Set is better for that. My personal opinion.

If you guys have changed that technique, let us know your version.
Thanks
Derek

Circling Windmills (Front- Two-Hand Push followed by a Right Punch)
1. An attacker at 12 o'clock pushes you with both hands.
2. Step back with your hands raised to say "I don't want any trouble." Your attacker follows with a right step-through punch.
3. Step back into a left neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you execute a right upward / extended outward block to the outside of your attacker's right arm. Simultaneous with this block, execute a left palm strike to your attacker's solar plexus.
4. Circle your left hand counterclockwise as you claw up and out to your attacker's face. (Your arm should remain in a blocking position in order to keep your attacker's right arm in check.) Simultaneous with this strike, execute a right inward hammerfist to your attacker's left ribs.
5. Have your right hand circle clockwise up and under your attacker's right arm into a right upward parry to expose the right side of your attacker's body. Simultaneous with this upward parry, execute a left inward hammerfist to your attacker's right ribs.
6. Step your right foot to 12 o'clock into a right neutral bow as you buckle the inside of your attacker's right knee. With this motion, have your left hand reverse its circle and check your attacker's right arm diagonally down and simultaneously execute a right inward hammerfist across the bridge of your attacker's nose.
7. From the right neutral bow, execute a right outward horizontal finger slice (palm down) to your attacker's eyes. Follow immediately with a right inward horizontal finger slice (palm up) across your attacker's eyes. Execute another right outward horizontal finger slice to your attacker's eyes. (While slicing at the eyes, maintain your left hand against your attacker's right arm.)
8. Pivot into a right front rotating twist stance as you execute a left inward raking backfist to the bridge of your attacker's nose. (Your right hand will now check your attacker's right arm to their body.)
9. Pivot back into a right neutral bow as you execute a left outward horizontal finger slice across your attacker's eyes.
10. Execute a right front crossover sweep to 7:30 to your attacker's right foot as you execute a left inward horizontal finger slice across your attacker's eyes. As you settle into your twist stance, execute a left outward horizontal finger slice across your attacker's eyes.
11. Step your left foot to 7:30 into a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as your left hand grabs your attacker's right wrist to counter manipulate them. Simultaneously execute a right palm strike to your attacker's chin.
12. Using your attacker's chin as a Pivot Point, execute a right inward five finger circular claw (counterclockwise motion) while you pivot into a right reverse bow.
13. While maintaining the left hand grab to your attacker's right wrist, hook your right hand hand to the right and then back of your attacker's neck. Anchor your elbow and pull them down into a right heel hook. (Your arm acts as a brace and a sandwich.)
14. Land forward from your kick and execute a right front crossover to 7:30 as you execute a right rising back knuckle strike to your attacker's face.
15. Execute a left spinning rear kick to any available target on your attacker.
16. Land in a left front crossover and cross out.

 

[dcence]

The technique I've always had trouble with is Twist of Fate. Sometimes I can pull it off with ease, other times I couldn't get my opponent to twist for cash. I'll have to give Robert's suggestion a try. I've worked with some guys who are so stiff in the torso and hips, that they just don't twist like that. Just means I have to hit em somewhere else. Oh well, that's life.

-Rob

When I tried to force this technique into the repertoire (which I don't any more) I used to do it as an add-on to Parting Wings and I would delete the slicing kick to the guy's hip and just do a forceful step through. That kick is awkward, but sometimes what makes the technique work.

Derek

 

[Shodan]

Thanks for the description.......at what level did you all learn this tech? I don't think I have been introduced to it yet.........unless it is in one of my forms and I just don't know it!!

Thanks-
:asian: :karate:

 

[Michael Billings]

Thanks for the description.......at what level did you all learn this tech? I don't think I have been introduced to it yet.........unless it is in one of my forms and I just don't know it!!

Thanks-
:asian: :karate:

2nd Brown on the 24 Technique Chart #8
1st Brown on the 16 Technique Chart #8

It has the applications of some of the hand isolations in Long Form 4.

See here Kenpo-Texas.com/Technique Reference for the lists of techniques and where it falls.

-Michael

 

[sumdumguy]

Dance of Death + I just don't like the way the oponents leg coems up between your legs. And it is to hard to control that leg effectively.

Rick

Just a tip, take it for what it's worth? when stepping into your opp step into a close kneel with your left knee either pinning or positionally checking the opp's right leg. Use the checking leg as sort of a guideline to bring the opp's leg up and clear of your groin.
:asian:

 

[Shodan]

Thank you for the reference Mr. Billings- I still don't see this tech. in any of my notes or belt lists.......maybe it has another name and I am just not recognizing or maybe it is not taught at my school or something- I don't recognize the attack or the defense.........weird!! :asian: