Zujitsuka
Blue Belt
arnisador said:
Correct sir!
Differences between Judo and Jiu-Jitsu?
- Thread starter Ceicei
- Start date
Correct sir!
- Thread Starter
- #22
Im back again with another report. The week prior, I missed going (which would have been my third class) because of family issues, so there is nothing to post. I did go to the most recent class (my fourth).
I took a good look at the word written on all the other students belts in black marker. The word is hirokyu. Im told it means yellow belt. I wonder if the choice of using H instead of K for the Japanse word for yellow (kiro or kiiro) is a difference of Japanese dialect or a Hawaiian form of spelling (my instructor is Hawaiian)?
I learned a few more new things. I wish I knew the names of what I learned (the challenge of being deaf and not understanding a Japanese language, which apparently is difficult to lipread). Consulting with Judo books indicate there are similarities (maybe a few inches off with certain footwork or hand placement makes it into a different technique), so Im unsure of what exactly was it that I did. I suppose time and practice will tell eventually when I finally learn which is which. First of all, I want to thank Gaston for his earlier posts to this thread and private emails that enabled me to learn to understand the Judo terminology. I also appreciate the advice from others who suggested good books to use as reference.
Now my report:
We started off with our usual warm-up stretches and drills (ukemi-waza and shrimping). We reviewed the nage-waza I had learned from previous classes, Osoto-gari and Ouchi-gari. I feel pretty comfortable with them now. We moved on to other kinds of throws to practice.
These are the new ones I learned.
I stepped my right foot slightly to the left, ahead of my left foot. At the same time, my right hand let go of the lapel and goes under her right arm and up to the top of her right shoulder. Since my right foot is ahead of my left foot, I twist around until my back is to my partner and my feet are close an parallel. While holding on to her arm, I continue the momentum by moving my back downwards and pulling her arm forward and down. I bend over a bit slightly and have her flip over in front of me.
I felt uncomfortable having my feet so close together. In my mind, I feel that having my feet apart and going low would give me a better balance stance than having them close together (in other words, a pencil standing on end isnt as stable), but I did learn that having feet close together did give me better leverage to move her over. :idunno: I guess what I expect or learned elsewhere doesnt necessarily translate to another style.
We did the throws on both sides, left and right (hidari and migi).
Next, we did another variation of the above throw. Instead of my right hand letting go of her lapel, I just kept my hold on it, and moved my feet/body around the same way, going downward with my body. The only difference is my right elbow goes into her armpit and under her arm. Even though just holding on her gi doesnt give me a feeling of a secure hold, the elbow being there under her right arm gave me the leverage to pull her over.
The next throw I learned was to drop my right hand off her label and around her waist. I use my left hand to pull her over while doing the same footwork, but there are two slight differences. My right hip in one type of throw, is in front of her left hip, and the second type of throw, my right hip is in front of her right hip.
In all four of these new throws I learned, my feet are kept close together and parallel.
Next, I learned one more throw, but the footwork was different and easier to do the throw (for me anyway). I step with my right foot further to the left ahead of my left foot. I move my left foot slightly forward and pivoting it until my back is to her. Instead of moving my right foot closer to my left foot, I just lift my right heel and pivot it onto the balls. Of course, while Im doing this footwork, my right hand is still on her lapel and my left hand on her sleeve, pulling her forward with my rotation. Essentially, I am tripping my partner backwards over my right leg.
After we practiced these throws, we reviewed the pins (osae-komi-waza) we had learned from previous classes. We practiced the hon-kesa-gatame, kata-gatame, kami-shiho-gatame, kazure-kami-shiho-gatame, and yoko-shiho-gatame.
At the end of the class, we usually do randori with resisting partners, but this time, it is a modified form of randori. The instructor wanted us all on our knees. The goal is to attempt to put each other into one of the five osae-komi-waza. Because we are on our knees, we cant do throws very well, but have to focus on off-balancing each other and pinning.
When it was my turn, and we struggled a bit (my randori partner is the same one from my first class randori). She was getting tired, so my partner tried to welsh out on me by laying herself flat on the mat, belly down, breathing hard. I looked over at my instructor and she just shrugged, indicating I need to keep trying. So I then slid my right arm under her right armpit and chin to try to grab her collar (left side). At the same time, I slid my left arm under her right leg and up between her legs to try to reach her belt, intending to flip her over and do one of those side pins. When she realized what I was going to do, she tried to reach her right leg over my back towards my head but I dodged that by moving down low towards her head instead, out of reach of her leg. She then did a very hard shrimp and got out (by breaking my left hold off her belt). She got up on her knees and then was able to break my balance and pinned me with a kata-gatame.
Ah well. Maybe one of these days, I will learn ways of how to get out of those osae-komi-waza.
All in all, a good class session!
- Ceicei
I took a good look at the word written on all the other students belts in black marker. The word is hirokyu. Im told it means yellow belt. I wonder if the choice of using H instead of K for the Japanse word for yellow (kiro or kiiro) is a difference of Japanese dialect or a Hawaiian form of spelling (my instructor is Hawaiian)?
I learned a few more new things. I wish I knew the names of what I learned (the challenge of being deaf and not understanding a Japanese language, which apparently is difficult to lipread). Consulting with Judo books indicate there are similarities (maybe a few inches off with certain footwork or hand placement makes it into a different technique), so Im unsure of what exactly was it that I did. I suppose time and practice will tell eventually when I finally learn which is which. First of all, I want to thank Gaston for his earlier posts to this thread and private emails that enabled me to learn to understand the Judo terminology. I also appreciate the advice from others who suggested good books to use as reference.
Now my report:
We started off with our usual warm-up stretches and drills (ukemi-waza and shrimping). We reviewed the nage-waza I had learned from previous classes, Osoto-gari and Ouchi-gari. I feel pretty comfortable with them now. We moved on to other kinds of throws to practice.
These are the new ones I learned.
I stepped my right foot slightly to the left, ahead of my left foot. At the same time, my right hand let go of the lapel and goes under her right arm and up to the top of her right shoulder. Since my right foot is ahead of my left foot, I twist around until my back is to my partner and my feet are close an parallel. While holding on to her arm, I continue the momentum by moving my back downwards and pulling her arm forward and down. I bend over a bit slightly and have her flip over in front of me.
I felt uncomfortable having my feet so close together. In my mind, I feel that having my feet apart and going low would give me a better balance stance than having them close together (in other words, a pencil standing on end isnt as stable), but I did learn that having feet close together did give me better leverage to move her over. :idunno: I guess what I expect or learned elsewhere doesnt necessarily translate to another style.
We did the throws on both sides, left and right (hidari and migi).
Next, we did another variation of the above throw. Instead of my right hand letting go of her lapel, I just kept my hold on it, and moved my feet/body around the same way, going downward with my body. The only difference is my right elbow goes into her armpit and under her arm. Even though just holding on her gi doesnt give me a feeling of a secure hold, the elbow being there under her right arm gave me the leverage to pull her over.
The next throw I learned was to drop my right hand off her label and around her waist. I use my left hand to pull her over while doing the same footwork, but there are two slight differences. My right hip in one type of throw, is in front of her left hip, and the second type of throw, my right hip is in front of her right hip.
In all four of these new throws I learned, my feet are kept close together and parallel.
Next, I learned one more throw, but the footwork was different and easier to do the throw (for me anyway). I step with my right foot further to the left ahead of my left foot. I move my left foot slightly forward and pivoting it until my back is to her. Instead of moving my right foot closer to my left foot, I just lift my right heel and pivot it onto the balls. Of course, while Im doing this footwork, my right hand is still on her lapel and my left hand on her sleeve, pulling her forward with my rotation. Essentially, I am tripping my partner backwards over my right leg.
After we practiced these throws, we reviewed the pins (osae-komi-waza) we had learned from previous classes. We practiced the hon-kesa-gatame, kata-gatame, kami-shiho-gatame, kazure-kami-shiho-gatame, and yoko-shiho-gatame.
At the end of the class, we usually do randori with resisting partners, but this time, it is a modified form of randori. The instructor wanted us all on our knees. The goal is to attempt to put each other into one of the five osae-komi-waza. Because we are on our knees, we cant do throws very well, but have to focus on off-balancing each other and pinning.
When it was my turn, and we struggled a bit (my randori partner is the same one from my first class randori). She was getting tired, so my partner tried to welsh out on me by laying herself flat on the mat, belly down, breathing hard. I looked over at my instructor and she just shrugged, indicating I need to keep trying. So I then slid my right arm under her right armpit and chin to try to grab her collar (left side). At the same time, I slid my left arm under her right leg and up between her legs to try to reach her belt, intending to flip her over and do one of those side pins. When she realized what I was going to do, she tried to reach her right leg over my back towards my head but I dodged that by moving down low towards her head instead, out of reach of her leg. She then did a very hard shrimp and got out (by breaking my left hold off her belt). She got up on her knees and then was able to break my balance and pinned me with a kata-gatame.
Ah well. Maybe one of these days, I will learn ways of how to get out of those osae-komi-waza.
All in all, a good class session!
- Ceicei
G
Gaston
Guest
These are the new ones I learned.
Ippon seoi nage (one-arm shoulder throw)
This throw is easiest to perform keeping two small points in mind. One lock your right elbow crease tight to their armpit (think pinch them with your biceps). Two maintain the lock and bring that elbow (right) to touch your left knee. You can even try it without a partner (uki).
I stepped my right foot slightly to the left, ahead of my left foot. At the same time, my right hand let go of the lapel and goes under her right arm and up to the top of her right shoulder (at this time bring left foot back slightly behind your right, as this is your driving foot). Since my right foot is ahead of my left foot, I twist around until my back is to my partner and my feet are close and nearly parallel. While holding on to her arm, I continue the momentum by moving my back downwards and pulling her arm forward and down. I bend over a bit slightly and have her flip over in front of me.
I felt uncomfortable having my feet so close together. In my mind, I feel that having my feet apart and going low would give me a better balance stance than having them close together (in other words, a pencil standing on end isnt as stable), but I did learn that having feet close together did give me better leverage to move her over.
This is very true however each throw is a direct response to your opponents position. This particular throw is best demonstrated in the first throw of Kata. Just ask for a demonstration of ippon seoi nage (kata style) and youll see.
I guess what I expect or learned elsewhere doesnt necessarily translate to another style.
Sometimes the translation gets garbled dont disregard old lessons just yet.
Morote seoi nage (two-armed shoulder throw)
Same tips with the feet position, not quite parallel. As for the secure hold try grabbing initially lower on the lapel. Then pull up to loosen the lapel you are holding. That way when you step in you can rotate your hand palm down and keep your wrist flexed (like flexing your biceps). I am assuming that your hand and wrist have gone the other way palm up and wrist extended. We all did, the same thing at first and it is quite uncomfortable, so no worries. Also remember to pull across your body with the other hand to keep her firmly on your back.
Next, we did another variation of the above throw. Instead of my right hand letting go of her lapel, I just kept my hold on it, and moved my feet/body around the same way, going downward with my body. The only difference is my right elbow goes into her armpit and under her arm. Even though just holding on her gi doesnt give me a feeling of a secure hold, the elbow being there under her right arm gave me the leverage to pull her over. Try thinking of it as a pivot for her to fall over, and itll work better.
Uki goshi (Floating hip)
Bear with me this explanation might sound odd. Stand in front of a mirror with your feet mostly parallel. Shifting your hips left and right you will see them raise and lower. Picture someone standing just behind you and to your right. As you both shift your hips to the left, yours will be at their low point and theirs will be at their high point. Position your hands as you stated left hand on sleeve and right around their back. Lock her left hip to your right and as you move back to your right they lift off the floor without you seeming to pick them up.
O goshi (Major hip)
The next throw I learned was to drop my right hand off her label and around her waist. I use my left hand to pull her over while doing the same footwork, my right hip is in front of her right hip. Step in with bent knees lock on as you spring up.
My right hip in one type of throw Uki goshi is in front of her left hip, and the second type of throw, O goshi my right hip is in front of her right hip.
In all four of these new throws I learned, my feet are kept close together and parallel.
Tai otoshi (body drop)
Maybe?? The backwards comment makes me question if I am describing the right throw. So can you get back to me on this one thanks.
Next, I learned one more throw, but the footwork was different and easier to do the throw (for me anyway). I step with my right foot further to the left ahead of my left foot. I move my left foot slightly forward and pivoting it until my back is to her. Instead of moving my right foot closer to my left foot, I just lift my right heel and pivot it onto the balls. Of course, while Im doing this footwork, my right hand is still on her lapel and my left hand on her sleeve, pulling her forward with my rotation. Essentially, I am tripping my partner backwards?? over my right leg.
All in all, a good class session!
- Ceicei
Ippon seoi nage (one-arm shoulder throw)
This throw is easiest to perform keeping two small points in mind. One lock your right elbow crease tight to their armpit (think pinch them with your biceps). Two maintain the lock and bring that elbow (right) to touch your left knee. You can even try it without a partner (uki).
I stepped my right foot slightly to the left, ahead of my left foot. At the same time, my right hand let go of the lapel and goes under her right arm and up to the top of her right shoulder (at this time bring left foot back slightly behind your right, as this is your driving foot). Since my right foot is ahead of my left foot, I twist around until my back is to my partner and my feet are close and nearly parallel. While holding on to her arm, I continue the momentum by moving my back downwards and pulling her arm forward and down. I bend over a bit slightly and have her flip over in front of me.
I felt uncomfortable having my feet so close together. In my mind, I feel that having my feet apart and going low would give me a better balance stance than having them close together (in other words, a pencil standing on end isnt as stable), but I did learn that having feet close together did give me better leverage to move her over.
This is very true however each throw is a direct response to your opponents position. This particular throw is best demonstrated in the first throw of Kata. Just ask for a demonstration of ippon seoi nage (kata style) and youll see.
I guess what I expect or learned elsewhere doesnt necessarily translate to another style.
Sometimes the translation gets garbled dont disregard old lessons just yet.
Morote seoi nage (two-armed shoulder throw)
Same tips with the feet position, not quite parallel. As for the secure hold try grabbing initially lower on the lapel. Then pull up to loosen the lapel you are holding. That way when you step in you can rotate your hand palm down and keep your wrist flexed (like flexing your biceps). I am assuming that your hand and wrist have gone the other way palm up and wrist extended. We all did, the same thing at first and it is quite uncomfortable, so no worries. Also remember to pull across your body with the other hand to keep her firmly on your back.
Next, we did another variation of the above throw. Instead of my right hand letting go of her lapel, I just kept my hold on it, and moved my feet/body around the same way, going downward with my body. The only difference is my right elbow goes into her armpit and under her arm. Even though just holding on her gi doesnt give me a feeling of a secure hold, the elbow being there under her right arm gave me the leverage to pull her over. Try thinking of it as a pivot for her to fall over, and itll work better.
Uki goshi (Floating hip)
Bear with me this explanation might sound odd. Stand in front of a mirror with your feet mostly parallel. Shifting your hips left and right you will see them raise and lower. Picture someone standing just behind you and to your right. As you both shift your hips to the left, yours will be at their low point and theirs will be at their high point. Position your hands as you stated left hand on sleeve and right around their back. Lock her left hip to your right and as you move back to your right they lift off the floor without you seeming to pick them up.
O goshi (Major hip)
The next throw I learned was to drop my right hand off her label and around her waist. I use my left hand to pull her over while doing the same footwork, my right hip is in front of her right hip. Step in with bent knees lock on as you spring up.
My right hip in one type of throw Uki goshi is in front of her left hip, and the second type of throw, O goshi my right hip is in front of her right hip.
In all four of these new throws I learned, my feet are kept close together and parallel.
Tai otoshi (body drop)
Maybe?? The backwards comment makes me question if I am describing the right throw. So can you get back to me on this one thanks.
Next, I learned one more throw, but the footwork was different and easier to do the throw (for me anyway). I step with my right foot further to the left ahead of my left foot. I move my left foot slightly forward and pivoting it until my back is to her. Instead of moving my right foot closer to my left foot, I just lift my right heel and pivot it onto the balls. Of course, while Im doing this footwork, my right hand is still on her lapel and my left hand on her sleeve, pulling her forward with my rotation. Essentially, I am tripping my partner backwards?? over my right leg.
All in all, a good class session!
- Ceicei
Ceicei:
1. Stand astride your partner facing in the same direction as her.
2. Bend at the knees and grab the belt, your back absolutely straight.
3. Stand, holding the belt pulling them up in the middle.
4. Hook your feet in underneath them and kneel down, being careful (at first) of twisting your ankles.
5. Grab their collars or other convenient part.
6. Roll sideways to the left or right taking them with you.
From there, choke them, or if that is not part of the exercise, scramble out halfway through the roll, and attempt to pin.
1. Stand astride your partner facing in the same direction as her.
2. Bend at the knees and grab the belt, your back absolutely straight.
3. Stand, holding the belt pulling them up in the middle.
4. Hook your feet in underneath them and kneel down, being careful (at first) of twisting your ankles.
5. Grab their collars or other convenient part.
6. Roll sideways to the left or right taking them with you.
From there, choke them, or if that is not part of the exercise, scramble out halfway through the roll, and attempt to pin.
p.s. On the scrambling out part:
Try climbing up her back (with your feet, while holding her collar, as if shinning up a lamp-post, but horizontally) with her sitting in front of you. This will bring your whole body up near her head. This is a very good position for a choke, but you could then hold her shoulders to the mat, and smother her with your belly by 'going over the top'. Now you are laying face down with her underneath on her back, your head on her stomach your stomach on her face.
This is not a common method of getting a hold down, because a choke is a much better option 'from the back', but if you are playing at pinning then it is an idea.
Try climbing up her back (with your feet, while holding her collar, as if shinning up a lamp-post, but horizontally) with her sitting in front of you. This will bring your whole body up near her head. This is a very good position for a choke, but you could then hold her shoulders to the mat, and smother her with your belly by 'going over the top'. Now you are laying face down with her underneath on her back, your head on her stomach your stomach on her face.
This is not a common method of getting a hold down, because a choke is a much better option 'from the back', but if you are playing at pinning then it is an idea.
I always liked the body drop throw.
G
Gaston
Guest
Bod said:
A small point in #4 keeping your toes pointed out can help to prevent a sprained ankle. Until you have decided what direction you are taking them, then you can adjust your feet accordingly.
K
Kevin Walker
Guest
Hi Guys,Ceicei said:
In my humble opinion and four decades of study on this topic; There are two main differences between Ju-do and Ju-jitsu: First Dr. Jigoro Kano removed all the dangerous techniques from Ju-jitsu and distilled it into his Ju-do; and second, ju-jitsu is based on 'leverage', while Ju-do is based on 'balance'.
If you read a first edition of KODOKAN JUDO by Dr. Jigoro Kano, he explained that in his repetoire of Judo training, the ratio of practice is: 80% Randori (free practice), 17% Kata, and 3% Shiai (tournament). He wanted his Judo to be a life long practice for the improvement of human character, not just a sport to win medals. It takes a long time to learn Judo.
Quickly, during the Meiji Restoration (1868-1910) in Japan, the Samurai were outlawed as a distinct class, as well as the dangerous martial arts. Thus the formidible Aiki-jitsu became Aiki-do, the lethal Ken-jitsu became Ken-do, and street fighting Ju-jitsu became Ju-do. [I hyphenated these names to emphasize that they are two distinct words in Japanese.] This is when the jitsu/do distinction came into being: 'jitsu' signifying mortal combat while 'do' would designate a more humane practice. It is more humane for Japanese Police to footsweep or throw rioters with Ju-do than it would be for them to break arms and dislocate necks with Ju-jitsu!!
Combat Judo is simply jujitsu. Brazilian Jujitsu is simply Judo with jujitsu techniques reinserted. Any attempt to modify Judo into a practical street fighting system would be just a reinvention of jujitsu!
Dr. Jigoro Kano was a true genius, he earned his PhD in Education, spoke two languages fluently (German & English), and invented Judo at age 22!!
So if you want to be a street fighter, study jujitsu; if you want a combative sport (like boxing or wrestling), study Judo! Thanks!
I'd argue against this. The distinguishing factor betwen BJJ and Judo must be the theory, and extremely clear training materials and methods as presented by the Gracies.
The best of BJJ theory is all about the 'static'. It emphasises posture and positions, followed by the transitions between them ,and the submissions as a result.
The pinacle of (Japanese) Judo theory is all about movement, with position a distant second.
This has lots to do with the two arts' main spheres of interest.
K
Kevin Walker
Guest
Hi,Bod said:
Thanks for this debate!
First, I believe the Gracie patriarch originally learned Judo from one of Dr. Kano's students, then modified it back into their own form of Jujitsu.
Second, the "pinacle of (Japanese) Judo theory" is kuzushi - balance, not movement! Dr. Kano is equally famous in Japan for his theory of 'kuzushi' as he is for his development of Judo.
Also, Judo and Jujitsu, are two distinct systems, there is very little basis of comparison anymore. Any modification of Judo into a pragmatic battle system is just a reinvention of jujitsu. Jujitsu emphasizes leverage, and Judo emphasizes balance.
One of the few jujitsu techniques Dr. Kano retained in 1882 in his Judo was Juji-gatame, which BJJ tends to overemphasize.
But since it is impossible to apply a Judo technique with out breaking your opponent's balance (methods of 'kuzushi'), then you might possibly be referring to kuzushi (balance) as movement? Don't forget, Brazilian Jujitsu came directly from Judo, and the Gracie family just reversed what Dr. Kano did by putting back all the jujitsu techniques Dr. Kano removed.
So if what you mean by "static" vs. "movement" is 'leverage' vs. 'balance' as the two distinctions between jujitsu and Judo, then I agree with you.
- Thread Starter
- #31
I was under the impression that Jujitsu (Japanese) and BJJ were not the same style? That was why my friend and I inquired about Jujitsu and Judo, as they were more closely related (as least I thought so) than BJJ and Judo.
- Ceicei
- Ceicei
K
Kevin Walker
Guest
No. Brazilian Jujitsu came directly from Judo and Judo came directly from jujitsu. The Gracies just went full circle and modified Judo back again into jujitsu. Jujitsu is jujitsu no matter what country modifies Judo back into its original style. I can modifiy my 30 years of Judo experience and call it Walker Jujitsu, hype it up as unbeatable, and defeat selected opponents just as the Gracies have.Ceicei said:
Dr. Jigoro Kano, after he developed Judo in 1882, sent several of his key students out all over the world to promote his new theory. One of his students went to Russia and taught, and this is where S.A.M.B.O. developed.
Another one of Dr. Kano's instuctors went to Brazil and taught the new Judo, and Gracie was one of the students (this is documented and records exist in the Kodokan in Japan). Gracie modified Judo to make it more practical in a street fight and just reinserted a lot of the same techniques that Dr. Kano removed in the first place, then called it Gracie Jujitsu, or now Brazilian Jujitsu. Again, any modifying of Judo to make it street fight practical is just to reinvent Jujitsu all over again!
- Thread Starter
- #33
Gaston,
Regarding that last throw I practiced, you inquired about my partner falling over backwards. It probably would be more accurate to say that while I am rotating and off-balancing her with my pull, she is moving sideways so starts falling sideways. By the time I complete my rotation and let her go, she ends up on her back on the mat. Does that make it a "body drop" throw as you had thought or is it something else?
- Ceicei
Regarding that last throw I practiced, you inquired about my partner falling over backwards. It probably would be more accurate to say that while I am rotating and off-balancing her with my pull, she is moving sideways so starts falling sideways. By the time I complete my rotation and let her go, she ends up on her back on the mat. Does that make it a "body drop" throw as you had thought or is it something else?
- Ceicei
L
Littledragon
Guest
Actually the first Gracie to learn Ju-Jitsu was Carlos who learned Japanese Ju-Jitsu from Count Koma and then Helio Gracie and Carlson were the one's to modify the technique into a more modern martial art/combat system and name it Gracie/Brazillian JIu-Jitsu.Kevin Walker said:
L
Littledragon
Guest
Kevin Walker said:
According the to book written by Helio Gracie Carlos learned Ju-Jitsu from Count Koma now he Koma might have learned Judo but it was never mentioned but Carlos learned Japanese Ju-Jitsu from Count Koma and taught it to Helio and Carson and they modified it into Brazillian/Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
psi_radar
Black Belt
Ceicei--
Next time you're doing Five Swords, try inserting the:
Ippon seoi nage (one-arm shoulder throw)
where the right uppercut normally would be. This'll give you a good idea how Kenpo and Judo can mesh.
So you'd have:
Double block
Handsword
Palmheel
Throw
If the situation allows, I will happily insert a throw into a Kenpo technique as a finish. There's just nothing so... final... as hearing your opponent's body thump into the ground. :boing2:
Next time you're doing Five Swords, try inserting the:
Ippon seoi nage (one-arm shoulder throw)
where the right uppercut normally would be. This'll give you a good idea how Kenpo and Judo can mesh.
So you'd have:
Double block
Handsword
Palmheel
Throw
If the situation allows, I will happily insert a throw into a Kenpo technique as a finish. There's just nothing so... final... as hearing your opponent's body thump into the ground. :boing2:
K
Kevin Walker
Guest
Hi,Littledragon said:
Thanks! Your information appears to be the Gracie version of history.
More historically accurate is: Count Koma, "Conde Koma" is Mitsuyo Maeda - one of Dr. Jigoro Kano's earliest Judo students and one of his most important Judo instructors.
Kano jujitsu, a.k.a. Judo, was taught to Gasto (Carlos?) Gracie in 1917 by Mitsuyo Maeda, a.k.a. Count Koma. Mitsuyo Maeda (along with Sanshiro Sataka) traveled all over South America and Mexico teaching the new method of Judo, a.k.a. Kano jujitsu. It was in Mexico that Mitsuyo Maeda was given the sobriquet of "Conde Koma" for his somber and distinguished looks.
So it is true that Dr. Jigoro Kano's top Judo instructors were sent to South America where in Brazil Judo expert Mitsuyo Maeda taught Gasto (Carlos?) Gracie JUDO! Then the Gracie family modified JUDO back into some form of jujitsu, calling it Gracie/Brazillian Jujitsu. Therefore BJJ is directly derived from Judo.
For verification, please visit: http://www.judobrasil.combr/Komtr.htm
Hope this helps! Thanks.
ppko
Master Black Belt
excellent post very informativeKevin Walker said:
Thanks
PPKO
- Thread Starter
- #40
They do allow chokes, so the next time she tries to lay down flat on the mat, I will try what you suggested and perhaps I will be more successful in getting a pin (or a choke).Bod said:
Thank you,
- Ceicei
