Differences between Judo and Jiu-Jitsu?

L

Littledragon

Guest
Ok thanks thats why I was asking if Count Koma practiced Judo, thats why they have a picture of Jigoro Kano at my Jiu-Jitsu school.'

Thanks 4 clearing that up.
 
G

Gaston

Guest
Ceicei,

Tai otoshi (body drop)

With the backwards comment revised it sounds more possible that it is Tai otoshi. If it is and you found this throw easy, way to go it takes a lot of coordination for it to “feel” easy. As you already found out when doing this throw, wait/make them step forward with the same foot as the sleeve you are holding. Then stepping in with the opposite foot just in past and in front of their foot but not touching it. The space will prevent them from attempting to block by pressing on the back of your knee. Finish the throw with a whipping motion of the hands: forward-down-and back. Again, good job on picking it up quickly. As for escaping from osae-komi-waza just remember to create a narrow base of support and a high center of gravity. It will diminish the effectiveness of any hold down. If you do feel someone going for a hold down, allow them to (almost) put one on that you are more proficient escaping from. It’s sort of like picking the lesser of two evils. Keep up the good work.


Gaston
 
K

Kevin Walker

Guest
Littledragon said:
Ok thanks thats why I was asking if Count Koma practiced Judo, thats why they have a picture of Jigoro Kano at my Jiu-Jitsu school.'

Thanks 4 clearing that up.
Hi Littledragon,

You made me curious, what style of Jiu-Jitsu do you study that has a picture of Dr. Jigoro Kano in its school?

I have seen Danzan-ryu Jiu-Jitsu practiced, and it is virtually identical to Kano's Jiu-Jitsu (Judo), but they pay no homage to Dr. Kano.

Would appreciate any info you could provide,

Yours - A life long martial arts enthusiast!
 
L

Littledragon

Guest
Kevin Walker said:
Hi Littledragon,

You made me curious, what style of Jiu-Jitsu do you study that has a picture of Dr. Jigoro Kano in its school?

I have seen Danzan-ryu Jiu-Jitsu practiced, and it is virtually identical to Kano's Jiu-Jitsu (Judo), but they pay no homage to Dr. Kano.

Would appreciate any info you could provide,

Yours - A life long martial arts enthusiast!
Brazillian/Gracie Jiu-Jitsu
 
K

Kevin Walker

Guest
Littledragon said:
Brazillian/Gracie Jiu-Jitsu
Thanks! I've trained in Hakko-ryu jiu-jitsu for eight years straight. (And twelve years of Judo, plus a few years of Goju-ryu, Uechi-ryu, and Tae Kwon Do). I practiced a little Kodokwan jiu-jitsu, and I've observed Danzan-ryu jiu-jitsu (which is extremely identical to Judo). I also worked out like a savage with Kendo (which is great stuff).

I've practiced Ken-jitsu and Hojo-jitsu. I love Hojo-jitsu and work it every chance I get!

I would like to recommend to you the book: COMPLETE KANO JIU-JITSU (c.1950) by H.I. Hancock, which I read and devoured in the late 1960s as an eager beaver kid (teen). This book is available in public libraries and you should be able to find it with the help of your local librarian.

The only BJJ I have seen is on videos and on the boob tube, and I'm sorry to say, it does not impress me! It just reminds me too much of professional wrestling as it was done in the 1960s on the T.V. Gene LeBell was very correct when he asserted that Pro-wrestling was one of the ultimate unarmed defense methods (not the glitzy garbage done on today's WWF T.V. junk). And the pro-wrestlers of the 1960s did it a whole lot better than the BJJ guys I see on the videos and on cable T.V.

Also, please read anything on Judo by Don Draeger for a good opinion of what Dr. Jigoro Kano feared that Judo might become (hint: BJJ).
 

arnisador

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
44,573
Reaction score
456
Location
Terre Haute, IN
I did Uechi-ryu for about a year and a half...I thought it was pretty neat. I went back-and-forth in my opinion of its effectiveness, but more and more I see the potential in it, though I haven't done it for years.
 
K

Kevin Walker

Guest
arnisador said:
I did Uechi-ryu for about a year and a half...I thought it was pretty neat. I went back-and-forth in my opinion of its effectiveness, but more and more I see the potential in it, though I haven't done it for years.
Hi,

To be perfectly honest, outside of the benefits of Sanchin training, I thought Uechi-ryu to be the most, errr, I hesitate to put this in print, ineffective style of Okinawan Karate next to Isshin-ryu.

When I go to a mixed karate style shiai, the Uechi-ryu stylists adopt their classic dink toed stance, then fly into an unrecognizable flurry of techniques. You can always recognize the Shotokanists because they're the ones always screaming their heads off, great kiais and spiritual development though.

Uechi-ryu was once very big here in Boston, in fact, it was Mattson who first introduced Karate to the city of Boston in the early 60s, and the style he introduced was Uechi-ryu. Today there is very little Uechi-ryu left in Boston except for one of Mattson's students teaching privately in health clubs and gyms. I don't like to dis any style, but I gravitated away from Uechi-ryu.
 

arnisador

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
44,573
Reaction score
456
Location
Terre Haute, IN
I studied it in Providence, RI. At first I too thought it was pretty ineffective, but more and more I appreciate the head-on approach and circular blocks. With some aliveness I think it has potential. I still don't like the toe kicks.

I don't practice it, but have revised my opinion of it. Still, I understand and respect your opinion.
 

Marginal

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2002
Messages
3,276
Reaction score
67
Location
Colorado
Kevin Walker said:
The only BJJ I have seen is on videos and on the boob tube, and I'm sorry to say, it does not impress me! It just reminds me too much of professional wrestling as it was done in the 1960s on the T.V. Gene LeBell was very correct when he asserted that Pro-wrestling was one of the ultimate unarmed defense methods (not the glitzy garbage done on today's WWF T.V. junk). And the pro-wrestlers of the 1960s did it a whole lot better than the BJJ guys I see on the videos and on cable T.V.

That shootfighting style migrated to Japan where it remains alive and well.
 
J

Josh

Guest
Judo-In a tournament, looks like two people holding on to each other till one "trips" the other and they both fall. :ultracool

Jujitsu-You grab me I grab your wrist and "toss" you.


:asian:
 
K

Kevin Walker

Guest
Josh said:
Judo-In a tournament, looks like two people holding on to each other till one "trips" the other and they both fall. :ultracool

Jujitsu-You grab me I grab your wrist and "toss" you.


:asian:
Hi Josh,

I admit that watching a Judo tournament is as boring to the uninitiated as watching a GO (chess) game; yet I understand that there are hidden dynamics taking place in a Judo tournament just as there are in a game of GO (chess).

That is why martial arts practitioners used to be called "know-bodys", because we knew!!!

The high level GO (chess) player during a championship game is burning up almost an equal amount of calories as the high level Judoka during a championship!

And based on your observation that Jiu-jitsu consists of: "You grab me I grab your wrist and 'toss' you", I need to suggest that you have no comprehension of the Tori/Uke relationship! Please contact your instructor and ask him what is the difference between Tori and Uke (this is Japanese). It is a vital aspect of martial arts training!

Or better yet, go to the library and research it. The book: KODOKAN JUDO by Dr. Jigoro Kano is a good place to start, then continue on to some Jiu-jitsu books. I hope this helps.
 
K

Kevin Walker

Guest
Marginal said:
That shootfighting style migrated to Japan where it remains alive and well.
Hi Marginal,

How is shootfighting related to Mr. Gene LeBell and Professional Wrestling?
 
K

Kevin Walker

Guest
arnisador said:
I studied it in Providence, RI. At first I too thought it was pretty ineffective, but more and more I appreciate the head-on approach and circular blocks. With some aliveness I think it has potential. I still don't like the toe kicks.

I don't practice it, but have revised my opinion of it. Still, I understand and respect your opinion.

Yes, every style has something good to offer, and I still keep a few of the Uechi-ryu techiques in my repetoire of useful methods, and I loved the Sanchin breathing exercises, but that is as far as it went. I kinda drifted away from all the Karate/Tae Kwon Do styles of Martial Arts and fully devoted my self into Judo and Jiu Jitsu styles.
 

Marginal

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2002
Messages
3,276
Reaction score
67
Location
Colorado
Kevin Walker said:
Hi Marginal,

How is shootfighting related to Mr. Gene LeBell and Professional Wrestling?

Some of those wreslters you were talking about took their shows to Japan. Their submission wrestling styles took off there in various Japan pro wrestling federations. Some went the way of the WWF, some went a different route. Pancrase, shooto, etc are all a result of the wrestling style that LaBell was endorsing in your comment.

Sakuraba comes from that tradition in fact. As does the Pride event in general.
 
OP
Ceicei

Ceicei

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Apr 23, 2003
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
85
Location
Utah
Report of my 5th week class. I have one more class left (actually three, but I will be going out of state on a two week vacation, so I will miss the last two weeks). I explained this to my Judo instructor and she invited me to come for free for the whole month of August when I get back. Ummm, very tempting offer. I will think about it and decide after I return from vacation whether to accept it. I had been mulling about the idea of trying out Jujitsu at a different school closer to my home with more convenient hours that can be worked around my family and Kenpo.

It was a very small class this time, only a third showed up, because of the holiday week. I thought it interesting that all the females (except one) showed up. Just one boy came. The men and one other boy weren’t there. He eventually left half way through the class. His expression looked kind of lost among all the women. He couldn't have been more than 11 years old. I felt kind of sad that there weren’t more youth involved with Judo. Maybe it isn’t being promoted as much as other kinds of martial arts.:(

We did our warm up stretches with dumbbells in our hands and had very short drills of breakfalling and shrimping.

We had a quick review of Osoto-gari and Ouchi-gari, then reviewed the ones I learned last week, Ippon-seoi-nage, morote-seoi-nage, uki-goshi, O-goshi, and Tai-otoshi. My uki for this class was a much taller, heavier woman, so it was more of a challenge working the throws on her. Last week I had no problem doing the some of the throws with another woman, but this week with this uki, I realized that her weight difference (she is a good 30-40 pounds heavier than me) apparently made quite an impact on how I practice. It forced me to focus more on the “how to” of the waza than relying on my own strength. It was a reality check for me. It also made me wonder why the instructor doesn’t usually let the females pair up with the males. I realize the males outweigh most of us, but wouldn’t that be a good thing to learn by working with them? :idunno:

Gaston, you mentioned about flexing the wrist with morote-seoi-nage. I took your advice and that helped. A new problem came up with practicing this technique. When my elbow goes into her armpit and under her arm, I found that my elbow became hyperflexed because of her weight. Perhaps I’m doing something incorrectly because when I went home, I barely could use my elbow as it was so sore. I’ve had hyperextended joints, but it was a new experience to have a joint hyperflexed. :xtrmshock

I learned another type of throw. I keep my right hand on her left label and my left hand on her right sleeve. My right foot steps forward between her feet, closer to her right foot. I pivot on my left leg, turning around with my back towards my uki, but instead of putting my weight on both of my feet, I sweep my right leg backwards against her right leg. That proved to be difficult to do, since I see the other Tori/uki both loose balance and fall. I hadn’t fallen down doing this, but I tend to let go a bit too early before she falls because I do not complete the full rotation.

One final throw I learned was sort of like kosoto-gari, but this one was with my left foot hooking behind her right ankle instead of her knee.

After practicing these throws, we quick reviewed the pins—didn’t spend a lot of time doing these pins in this class.

Next, we then learned some chokes/strangleholds. I stood behind my uki and put my right arm around her neck, grasping my right hand with my left hand. The next choke I learned had my right hand grasping her left collar, almost behind her neck, but keeping my right forearm horizontal. Apparently all the chokes I learned require the choking arm to be horizontal, working more like a bar than a choke with the elbow out front. My left hand grasps her right lapel and pulls down on it. The third choke was similar, except that my left hand grasps her left lapel and pulls down on it. The fourth choke was more fun… my right hand grasps her left collar high behind her neck, and my left arm loops under her right arm, then goes around to the back of her head (kind of like half of a nelson – one sided). The fifth choke was having my uki mount me while I’m on my back. I cross my hands and grasp her lapels high up her collar (my right hand on her right lapel and my left hand on her left lapel) and apply an opposing pull. This last one was easy to do as this choke is also known in my primary art, American Kenpo.

Sadly, we ran out of time to do randori. :miffer: I had been looking forward to randori since it’s the only time I can try out what I learned on a resisting partner.

- Ceicei
 

Latest Discussions

Top