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WhiteTiger
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- Thread Starter
- #41
Although it was not posted as an option Panter Set or Book Set is my form of choice in competition.
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Kenpomachine
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- Thread Starter
- #42
I must say that I have only gone to kenpo only tourneys, and though there were some flashy forms, the winners were traditional forms. In Dublin European, it was Mr Collado with an awesome form (maybe long 6), and in Madrid IKKA Internationals it was Sergio Jódar (long 6), then Collado (also long 6) and Javier Arrabé (long 5). I am talking of the champion of champions here.
By the way, the only time I didn't do the form required for my degree was short 3, my fav so far. But now I'm beginning long 4, and I love it!
By the way, the only time I didn't do the form required for my degree was short 3, my fav so far. But now I'm beginning long 4, and I love it!
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bahenlaura
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- #43
Brian,
To answer your question, I should say you want to do a form that you feel most confortable with. I don't agree with changing the original form for the sake of trophy. I believe we need to stive to show the best that Kenpo has to offer through deligent and hard work. there are already alot of watered down versions of Kenpo around. We should not add to it.
I personally have won few comeptetions through out my Journy with short 1, short 2, short 3 and long 4. These have been in various tournies. from kenpo to tK to hard Japanies style.
you get out of the Art what you put into it.
Your Brother in The Art
Burt
:ultracool
KenpoDave
2nd Black Belt
My first tournament, I took first with an unmodified Short #3. Did the same thing only better a month later at the Battle of Atlanta, did not even place.
My favorite form is Long #2 followed closely by #4 and #6.
My favorite form is Long #2 followed closely by #4 and #6.
How was your experience and thoughts on the battle of atlanta? I haven't had the opportunity to ever go and heard nothing but good stories.
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Sifu DangeRuss
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- Thread Starter
- #46
I have always selected the form I am to compete with, based upon who the judges are lined up before me. This also has a dramatica bearing on how i interpret whichever form I use. If I'm facing down a line of stiff, white gis with bold rising sun patches, then my form becomes decidedly harder, the kiai's a bit louder, the technique groupings more delineated.
If on the other hand the majority of the judges have V-Necked TKD tops, then the kicks are super-emphasized.
Frog buttoned chinese tops call for fluidity and continuity and often also means that I can perform a much more complex form without being penalized. Kiais are replaced with silent calm.
Majority rules. That is one of the truly great aspects of our style of martial art, being neither exclusively hard, nor soft...it is open to a broad range of interpretations and yet may still remain faithful to it's Kenpo roots. If you are competing to win, this is wise to keep in mind. Otherwise, perhaps you should simply sign-up for a demo at half-time, then you may perform it as you feel it should be done.
Now, that being said, my own experience and observation is this, whatever form you choose (within reason), if it is performed correctly, with proper power, proper focus, correct balance and techniques enunciated clearly enough that anyone watching can see what it is you are doing, and that you have clearly won your mock confrontation(s)...then it will generally be recognized accordingly. The key is performing each and every move as if your very life depended upon it, and make your audience/judges believe it does as well. When you can sell that, then any form can become a winning form.
If on the other hand the majority of the judges have V-Necked TKD tops, then the kicks are super-emphasized.
Frog buttoned chinese tops call for fluidity and continuity and often also means that I can perform a much more complex form without being penalized. Kiais are replaced with silent calm.
Majority rules. That is one of the truly great aspects of our style of martial art, being neither exclusively hard, nor soft...it is open to a broad range of interpretations and yet may still remain faithful to it's Kenpo roots. If you are competing to win, this is wise to keep in mind. Otherwise, perhaps you should simply sign-up for a demo at half-time, then you may perform it as you feel it should be done.
Now, that being said, my own experience and observation is this, whatever form you choose (within reason), if it is performed correctly, with proper power, proper focus, correct balance and techniques enunciated clearly enough that anyone watching can see what it is you are doing, and that you have clearly won your mock confrontation(s)...then it will generally be recognized accordingly. The key is performing each and every move as if your very life depended upon it, and make your audience/judges believe it does as well. When you can sell that, then any form can become a winning form.
:soapbox:
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Ronin
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- Thread Starter
- #47
About 15 years ago back when tournaments had like 30- 50 guys in division. I remember competing with short one and short two. Just when I thought I was doing good then along came a kung-fu/ wu shu guy and flipped around like a ninja. Those were neat to watch an always beat out us kenpo guys. Not till short 3 was shown did it seem the kenpo kids started to win. I remember some kenpo guys learned "the tiger and crane" just to compete. Not to downplay any kenpo forms thats just my experience. I think the more advance forms really can kick butt if applied with zeal.
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stacks
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- Thread Starter
- #48
selecting a form for a tournement should of the heart, in the ten years I have been training and all the competitions I have been to I find that you should choose the one you like best. I do not do form 4 because it has been over done by kenpoist. the form should be done in its traditional way without modifying it. if you have 2 kenpo guys doing the same form and 1 has changed it somewhere I will notice it as well as the judges and you may lose points. if you are a black belt you do not have to do the hardest or fanciest form because you think it is expected of you, do what you do best (I like long 3)
stacks
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Elfan
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- Thread Starter
- #49
Long 3 seems to be the least popular of the "cool high belt forms." Especially compared to form 4. Anyone have thoughts on why this is?
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brianhunter
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- Thread Starter
- #50
In my opinion its a lot of stopping and starting (point of origin i guess), long 4 has a good flow from beggining to end and long 3 just doesnt look as pleasing to the untrained eye. Ive only learned half of long 4 so I don't have an expert opinion by any means. Long 3 is a good solid form with lots of value but as far as tourneys go it doesnt seem as exploisive as say short 3 or long 4.
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stacks
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- Thread Starter
- #51
form 4 and long 3 are good competitons forms, i justed returned from the Tiger Balm Internationals and performed long 3 and received a bronze medal. there are other great forms to choose from such as form 5 and form 6 they also are entertaining as well (one of my students did form 5 last year at the same tournament and received a gold medal) do what you want to do not what you think the judges want to see
stacks :karate:
stacks :karate:
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Kenpomachine
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- Thread Starter
- #52
Maybe because most of long 3 is very similar to short 3 o rsomewhat repetitive or iterative, while short 4 is completely new?
I have competed with Tiger and the crane, form 6 even fingerset to long2. Bookset was a favorite under black.
I went to a tournament once and competed using form 6. I thought I did extremely well and when the scores came I got all 8's except the last judge who gave me a 5. After the event I asked why he gave me a 5. He said that the form was great but I didn't ask permission to begin... Go figure....
I went to a tournament once and competed using form 6. I thought I did extremely well and when the scores came I got all 8's except the last judge who gave me a 5. After the event I asked why he gave me a 5. He said that the form was great but I didn't ask permission to begin... Go figure....
Old Fat Kenpoka
Master Black Belt
Tiger & Crane: so much prettier than the numbered sets...
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Rainman
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- Thread Starter
- #55
It ain't the form old fat jujitsuka. It's what the guy knows who is doing the form. Sets are appendices of motion- forms are encyclopedias of motion. :moon:
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rmcrobertson
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- Thread Starter
- #56
I find Long 2 and Long 3 the most mysterious forms in kenpo...on some weird level, I feel that I understand Long 6 nbetter than either of them...and I am a BIG fan of Long 2.
maybe that's it...or maybe it's that they're the least kenpo-like of all kenpo forms...
maybe that's it...or maybe it's that they're the least kenpo-like of all kenpo forms...
pete
Master Black Belt
before i disagree, i'd like to understand your rationale for Long-2 being any less Kenpo-like than some other forms. I find Long-2 to be a perfect example of the linear within the circular, and lends itself to continous movement, like water flowing.
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rmcrobertson
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- #58
Well, one answer is that Long 2 and Long 3 contain some movements that aren't found elsewhere in the system. It's my understanding that Long 2 was the last of the, "Chinese," forms that Jimmy Wing Woo worked extensively on.
Another is that while I like both forms quite a lot, I find them mysterious, as I noted. And the description you gave, Pete, is a lot easier to realize in Long 4 or Long 6 than either of these forms.
Of course, I got a good close look at Mr. Tatum's Long 1 last year...all of it...I'm still a little depressed by the fact that it was about three times as graceful and, "flowing," as the way I do Long 6.
Another is that while I like both forms quite a lot, I find them mysterious, as I noted. And the description you gave, Pete, is a lot easier to realize in Long 4 or Long 6 than either of these forms.
Of course, I got a good close look at Mr. Tatum's Long 1 last year...all of it...I'm still a little depressed by the fact that it was about three times as graceful and, "flowing," as the way I do Long 6.
pete
Master Black Belt
Long-2 the movements from one technique feed directly into the next where your posture, weighting, and direction enhance continuous motion. Conversely, in Long-3 many movements return you into a horse stance, causing a double-weighted effect, which delineates each technique as a distinct exercise and hinders continous motion.
Long-4 is more like a combination of Long-2 and Long-3, since we do techniques from sides, but where symmetry allows a flow of continuity.
I'd let you know my take on Long-6, but I should first learn it!
Long-4 is more like a combination of Long-2 and Long-3, since we do techniques from sides, but where symmetry allows a flow of continuity.
I'd let you know my take on Long-6, but I should first learn it!
Old Fat Kenpoka
Master Black Belt
Long 3 has got to be the most boring Kata to watch--for the reasons Pete mentioned. Making it worse is that almost everything is done twice. Short 3 combined with Mass Attack is about the same length as Long 3 and much more interesting to watch in a tournament.
Long 4, and Long 6 are fast enough to be exciting even when not performed exceptionally well. Long 5 is really hard to make pretty--but when done well, it is really cool.
Book Set and Tiger & Crane are even more exciting than the numbered forms when the movements are elongated, stances are lowered, and timing is varied much as originally done by the Kung Fu guys.
Long 4, and Long 6 are fast enough to be exciting even when not performed exceptionally well. Long 5 is really hard to make pretty--but when done well, it is really cool.
Book Set and Tiger & Crane are even more exciting than the numbered forms when the movements are elongated, stances are lowered, and timing is varied much as originally done by the Kung Fu guys.
