Children's curriculi; watered down ???

[KenpoTex]

In the kid's classes at our studio we teach them a lot of the same material but it's presented in a slightly different way. We do teach some of the adult tecniques but they come from various lists and techniques off the same adult list might be taught at different levels for the kids. We focus a lot on basic combos like front-kick;jab;cross;elbow because, realistically, that probably the type of thing that most of us are going to do on the street as well as the fact that these types of drills help develop their motor-skills and coordination. One of the biggest things we stress is environmental awareness and avoiding the situation rather than having to engage. We use a lot of "games" and activities to teach these types of lessons, this way the training is fun and it's harder for their attention to wander. We also incorporate some basic BJJ grappling into the curriculum, for example, we teach a couple of mount escapes in case they end up on the ground.

 

[TigerWoman]

Watered down requirement, my favorite subject right now...

No, children learn differently than adults. They are also not disciplined enough at young ages to do endless repetition that us adults do to gain muscle besides memory. And while we can go 5-8 times to class during a week, their parents usually bring them twice a week.

And you didn't qualify that last choice. I don't think 5 year olds are equipped to do martial arts. Maybe a fun kicking class, but not learn forms etc. I was teaching left and right, last night, arrghh!

Besides the fact that if they don't stay in it until they graduate from school, how much to they retain? If they start later, their parents might see the value grow more and keep them in. TW

 

[loki09789]

Watered down requirement, my favorite subject right now...

No, children learn differently than adults. They are also not disciplined enough at young ages to do endless repetition that us adults do to gain muscle besides memory. And while we can go 5-8 times to class during a week, their parents usually bring them twice a week.

And you didn't qualify that last choice. I don't think 5 year olds are equipped to do martial arts. Maybe a fun kicking class, but not learn forms etc. I was teaching left and right, last night, arrghh!

Besides the fact that if they don't stay in it until they graduate from school, how much to they retain? If they start later, their parents might see the value grow more and keep them in. TW

With kids that small, I think private/small group lessons are the way to go honestly if the goal is to instruct them well and not just to give them the experience and 'extra-curricular' idea (as if MA is the same as gymnastics and such - geez!). My son only worked with me one on one semi-regularly for a while before he went to a group class during the 'bring a friend day' on the invitation of one of his classmates - he wiped the floor with the green belts in the class in terms of form, power, personal discipline, energy, focus.... Now some of that is due to the 'newness' of it and the novelty but some also has to do with how hard it is to focus student attention and development when you have 13 or more children to control and teach.

 

[pete]

... he wiped the floor with the green belts in the class in terms of form, power, personal discipline, energy, focus....

you should be proud of your boy!

but, how are those attributes discernable from a similar type of display in "gymnastics and such - geez!"...

pete

 

[OC Kid]

My class I teach the kids basically the same things as adults. But I dont teach them knee stomps throat shots ect. I keep it mainly with basic self defense. But as for sparring yea I teach the same techniques.

 

[rainbows]

Back when I did kenpo, we had lower testing requirements for juniors, 10 techniques for yellow and 14 techniques per belt up to black. The standard adult system was 24 techniques per belt after yellow(10 again). Sparring was identical, in fact I sparred all adults for junior black belt and I was attending senior class from the time I was 13.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I'm not going to teach six year old kids how to do testical crushes and eye gouges. Conversely, I'm not going to teach an adult how to handle a schoolyard bully (unless I'm teaching parents/prospective parents).

Time needs to be spent with the children on certain issues of discipline and etiquette that adults don't need. Things like not touching your mouth to the water fountain when taking a water break--or for the boys pulling them all into the bathroom to show them how to lift the lid. They hear it from their teachers and parents, they get it from me--hammers in some lessons. It also makes it easier for us to clean the bathroom.

Some things the adults do are far too painful for children. Then too, some things children can do are far too painful for older adults.


Regards,


Steve

 

[kenpo tiger]

I'm not going to teach six year old kids how to do testical crushes and eye gouges. Conversely, I'm not going to teach an adult how to handle a schoolyard bully (unless I'm teaching parents/prospective parents).

Time needs to be spent with the children on certain issues of discipline and etiquette that adults don't need. Things like not touching your mouth to the water fountain when taking a water break--or for the boys pulling them all into the bathroom to show them how to lift the lid. They hear it from their teachers and parents, they get it from me--hammers in some lessons. It also makes it easier for us to clean the bathroom.

Some things the adults do are far too painful for children. Then too, some things children can do are far too painful for older adults.


Regards,


Steve

Agreed.

I teach only kids' classes at our school - through choice. The Tiny Tigers (4 year olds) learn basics. We also teach them to work with others as a team, which is, imo, a very important concept for them to be introduced to at their age. They are also beginning to participate in team sports at this age (soccer and t-ball), so that reinforces the concept. The Little Dragons (5 - 7 year olds) learn four "techniques" created by our master instructor, which are, again, nothing more than combos of basic punches and kicks. They are also taught created sets (ditto for basics). [I hesitate to call them 'watered down', as someone did upthread, because basics are so important to martial arts.] Once those are performed to our satisfaction, the kids begin to learn modified kenpo techs. No pokes, chokes, or anything other than that which would be able to assist the child in defending him/herself and getting away to tell an adult. Juniors continue through the belt levels as adults do, but with modified techs.

We are about to get our first junior black belt on December 11th - Pete and Kenpo Mama's son - and he is truly amazing to watch. He has a work ethic which surpasses that of many adults and an understanding of the techs and forms which is impressive.

While I agree that a children's program is monetarily vital to a martial arts school where there are no side programs like ladies' classes in aerobics or the like, I disagree that that is all it's about. The kids talk to me about things which are surprising at times. It's not just about kenpo. It's about watching a child "get it" and see the smiles when they are able to do something we've worked on for a long time. It's also the hugs at the end of class, or a simple "thank you for showing that to me". One of my Little Dragons is testing for her yellow belt in December. She is painfully shy but has begun to come out of her shell and will one day be a great martial artist - if she chooses to stay with it. I'm looking forward to that day as much as she and her parents are. KT

 

[still learning]

Hello, Our kids class,(pee wees-5-7) has a different curriculum from the older kids . The (5-7) has require materials written down by our Professor for pee-wees to learn. Really basic stuffs and we try to keep it on the fun side too.

7-13 years old will train at their belt levels curriculum ( Junior - level materials.)
Our school has requirements for the Juniors to learn. Almost the same as the adults class. By the time they are adults, they will be able to continune and keep-up with the adults class. Many juniors will continune the upper levels of the junior advance materials. The phyical stuffs are less than adults,and more time to learn all the marterials.

13-17 advance juniors train with the adults class but covers the junior level workbook requirements set by the professor. Their learning steps up and the level of intensity also increase. We have all our marterials written down for each belt level and requirements to the next level for all students.

 

[Doc]

Here's my question(s):
Do you (or your school) teach a children's class?
John

No I do not. Most children would not be capapble of meeting the admission requirements. However my assigned thesis for 7th was on constructing a rank criterior that compartmentalized and accounted for children, juniors, adults, and transfer students from different styles of all ages. Unfortunately Ed Parker Sr. to my knowledge never implimented it.

 

[parkerkarate]

At my teachers studio, we teach two kids classes. A regular kids class for 5 year olds to about 12 or so. And than a preschool class for 3 1/2 year olds.

 

[shesulsa]

I'm not a Kenpoist, but I did wish to contribute to the thread.

First let me say that several of you have made excellent points - Mr. Conaster, a well-rounded children's program does, as you said, contribute to any good school. It's really great to get sprouting adults and teens in to assist with the little ones. A great way to polish up what you know or to learn it better is to teach it to someone younger or newer (or just plain different). Good to hear someone else in favor of a kids curriculum for more than just financial boosts.

Steve, reinforcing basic, yet important elements of living is part of what a good kids program is all about. Kudos.

I've been assisting teachers of kid's classes for over five years now. In that amount of time, the curriculum for the children's classes has changed a few times. First, the program taught one or two long forms behind the adults and only one short form per rank except white, with a select 10 techniques from the adult syllabus (out of at least 28) for each rank. The second time, the techniques were broken down into thirds, so a children's white rank would learn the first 10 of adult white, orange would learn the second 10 of adult white, then kids' yellow would learn the final 10 of adult white.

A couple of years ago, we had a sweeping curriculum change for the adult syllabus and now the children's program is virtually identical to the adult syllabus except we do not teach fatal or extremely devastating techniques to children and we do not teach weapons to anyone under the age of 16, only do so with parental consent and any exceptions to that must be approved in advance by the head instructor of our academy.

We have two children in the class I currently assist in who are red rank, one is about to be promoted to half-black so we are at least a year from having our first young black belt. He will be at least fourteen at that time, maybe fifteen which may be old enough for full-fledged black rank. These are the kinds of calls our head instructor can make on a one-by-one basis because we're small enough.

Teaching kids is very enlightening. You have to find ways around difficulties you didn't think you'd ever have to address and if you can teach a room full of kids, you can teach anyone - at least the basics.

What is most interesting to me is to see the differences in children. We have a very young man with loads of talent who is breaking down kicks, self-correcting his stances and has NO problem working his material repeatedly. Yes, these kids are rare, but they also serve as examples. I think he's around seven.

 

[kroh]

SHesulsa,

What a great post. I wholeheartedly agree that, just like in the prgram that you are a part of, children should not be given the same skills as adults. Similar...but not the same. Due to their age and also the fact that we live in a litegation happy society, the school could be liable for the actions of the student.

I have been working with kids since the early 90's and I have to day that it is the best part of my day. Usually i get to the classes about an hour before the kids hit the floor and i will usually grapple or fight with the kids or train with them in some way before the classes. Seeing all the fire and passion they bring to the floor (some of them anyway) gets me fired up for my own classes.

But i still agree with the above in that kids should be given a "shadow" program that is a slight reflection f the adult program. That way when they are ready for the material, they can be eased into it with minimal difficulty and stress. Another good thing about doing it this way is that the program grows with the student. As the student becomes more mature (hopefully), they will be able to receive the higher teachings that allows them to be more productive with their skill. Good stuff all around....

Regards,
Walt

 

[Sam]

we have two kids classes a week, for kids 11 and under. But children can (and often do) attend adult classes. Sometimes its annoying, when your on a bag with a 9 year old who's only there because his mom makes him, but on the other hand there's kids like 5-year-old Woody who looks about 3 and knows brown belt techniques. (he was trying to teach me finger set last week). He just got his orange belt because before this he's been too young to test. But I'm willing to bet that little munchkin will go very far in MA. You haven't seen anything til you've seen a 6 foot instructor teaching him to spar. Woody's head only comes up to his belt! Yeah I'm going so off topic here but Woody is so cute I just can't help it.

Anyway, when the younger kids attend adult classes they learn the same things as the adults. In children's classes, they play games like blockers, which is basically sparring with big fluffy bats, and techniques that are not so harsh as the adult classes.

However I think our adult classes are similiar to YOUR children's classes, because we do a lot of repition of the basics - we have private lessons to learn new stuff.

 

[Drifter]

In my school, the kids get another stripe on their belt for every third of the adult techniques they learn for the next belt, so that they get the same techniques, and they get the stripes as an incentive of sorts.

The thing that annoys me, though, is when kids who are the borderline of children's and adult classes come to the adult classes and aren't willing to work, and quite obviously don't practice often. I really think they should get cleared by an instructor to move up, instead of doing something they aren't ready for. I think it boils down to their maturity.

 

[Ray]

I don't teach kids younger than 5. I teach the same thing to youngsters that I teach to adults. But, at play with my own children and grand-children, I have shown them how to kick and punch correctly.

 

[Makalakumu]

My instructor taught us that for children, techniques like "low block" and "high block" and the rest of them were taught with very little interpretation. A "low block" was actually a low block etc. This was done because the techniques, when taught this way were not overtly dangerous, yet the student was still learning the "real moves" for when they came of age.

In my dojang, I've taken this bit of tradition and whittled down our lists. Application is straight forward and designed to teach children basic self defense, coordination, flexability, speed, and physical fitness.

In my children's class, I take kids as young as six years old. We move slowly and we play games to teach various aspects of MA. The pace of the class moves quickly, though and the kids are always moving.

I feel comfortable "graduating" a student in my children's classes to my adult classes when they reach 13 years of age. If that student has shown good character and a true passion for our "do" as a child, I am very excited to train them as adults. My first priority, though, when attempting to make this transition is to gauge their ability, maturity, and character...

13 to 15 can be shaky ground from a developmental standpoint. These students, right off the street, immediately go into my kids class until I can gauge some of their personal attributes. When I feel that I know them well enough and I can trust them, I may "invite" them to my adult classes.

At 16, I feel that a child is really at the threshold of becoming an adult and that they are ready for more mature training. If a student shows me that they are not ready, I will ask that student to leave until they can show the maturity that I require.

upnorthkyosa

 

[kenpoworks]

Mervyn Ormond developed a Junior "Basics" driven curriculum that Mr. Parker approved and endorsed.

 

[daddyslittle1]

the school i am at now does teach children different material.
my class teaches defense against grips and grabs,some punches and pushes.
the other class does against like almost all attacks.since you should no i am in the childrens class.

 

[Seabrook]

I teach kids from ages 6 and up.

My kids program is forms, sets, and sparring intensive. I teach them self-defense techniques as well, but way less per belt than the adult program. If a student achieves a junior black belt, he/she then has to learn all remaining self-defenses (until all 154 are learned) before he/she can test for 1st degree black belt.

It works well for me but I am interested in other opinions as well.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com