Children's curriculi; watered down ???

[Brother John]

It seems to be mere business fact that a good children's group/class in a martial arts school is important for revenue. It makes sense as the mystique of the martial arts and the impressive abilities of many martial artists can easily dazzle the eyes of the young and many parents are looking for a worthwhile recreational activity to put their kids into... and the fringe benefits of martial arts training just makes good sense.

Here's my question(s):
Do you (or your school) teach a children's class?

Is the material and instruction the same for the kidos as for the "regular" class? (not just methods of instruction, of course that Will be different merely due to the difference in education levels, discipline and attention span)

If there is no difference, why?

If there is a difference, why?

Thanks
I hope this turns into a beneficial discussion/debate.
Your brother
John

 

[MisterMike]

My last school did teach a children's curriculum. My current one does not.

The material was different.

The ranks were given as Jr. rankings.

 

[jeffkyle]

The last school I was at did teach a kids curriculum different than the adults.

I believe it was moderated well.

BUT a long time ago that same school did NOT have a different curriculum and the kids seemed to handle the adult curriculum well, but they progressed a bit slower than the adults.

 

[kenposikh]

At our schools we teach the same basics as adults learn however techniques are brought in at green belt level. Up until then we concentrate on sparring techniques improving, consolidating basics etc. By the time they get to the adult classes a junior black belt is then studying the adult yellow belt however they do have a majopr advantage as their understanding of stances and other principles is far better than a new adult for example.

 

[michaeledward]

At the school where I study, the 'Little Dragons', (6 or younger), they learn 3 techniques per belt, stripped down forms, and play a lot of games. I view the material much like an childs gymnastics class, learning motor skills and body-awareness.

There is a 'Kenpo Kids' (7 to 12), learn about 1/2 of the adult material.

The techniques use weapons and targets that are less dangerous than those techniques we adults learn; we may learn a technique with an inserted eye-poke, the young'uns learn the technique with out the eye-poke.

By the time a Kenpo Kid reaches a 'Jr.' Black Belt, they have learned about as much material as an adult blue belt, although different techniques.

I think this makes a lot of sense... teach the kids good self defense techniques, but with some limitations.

Peace - Mike

 

[Michael Billings]

I taught the adult criteria to kids since 1989. I had none make it to Brown until this year. They started with me at 9 or 10 and are now 15 and I have my 1st Brown Belt. I lost others due to frustration, inability to memorize the volume of material, difficulty "understanding" the concepts and principles. I recently started using a variation using "Universal Forms", that start with basics, including kicks, and move quickly to variations of Short 2, Long 2, Short 3, etc., but in more managable chunks. 8 - 10 techs per chart, and of course a bunch of basics.

I am still evaluating this, but it looks good and appears to be workable (except for me learning 8 new forms.) The Junior Belt is through 5th Black, as if I would ever see one get that high without getting to an adult age. I am not ruling it out ... I just do not see it now. They should be ready for their 1st Adult Black by then.

-MB

 

[kroh]

Teaching children has always been a touchy subject. DO you teach them to bite or to gouge the eyes? What about a stiff punch to the center of the throat.

In the school where I train, the techniques are modified so that the children are given a mode of defending themselves while at the same time not being lethal.

We also teach a prep class for young kids but as was said in a previous post, games and excercizes to get them ready for the next stage in their training.

My instructor makes fun of me when i teach that class ( tiny ones) he calls me Yoda and the kids my padawans....

There are some days when there are just not enough water balloons in the world...

Thanx for the minute...
WalT

 

[oldnewbie]

Although my school isn't Kempo, we have children and adults in the same class.

The adults are held to a higher standard in technique and form, and the children are not.

It's interesting to note though, some of the kids watch the adults and try to imitate the higher standard, others are pleased at the lower standards. You can tell the difference in the two types of kids in about 30 seconds....

 

[jukado1]

I teach a non kenpo based style, and our kids training is totaly different then the adult program, the situations children face or much different then what an adult would face. the childrens program is much more judo based, we do some of the same basics, but most of the s-d practice is ground and grappeling orianted as most of kids attacks dont need to damage a attacker, but we do try to mention and train children in what we call deadly attackes, attackes by adults, or teenagers of a gangbang mentality.

 

[Kenpomachine]

As I began in 1983 as a kid in a children's class (10-13) with the same material as the adults, I think that is the way to go.
We went slowler through the material than the adults, and we tested once a year. Those years the program taught in Spain was a third of what it is now in most schools, only 56 techniques.
I liked it and enjoyed working the techniques a lot.
The children's class I help assist is in the same school, but now has a different curricula, mostly without techs and sets. Kids are also now younger than we were (8-11).
Those two years make a whole lot of difference, as the older children help with the discipline in class as they have a larger attention span.

My answer to this? Kids from 10 up should be allowed to began working with techniques. Their being kids doesn't mean they're idiots and doesn't know what's right or wrong, or what may harm other people.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Kids are great because they think Karate is cool. Adults need to believe they are learning secret stuff and continualy be convinced that this is worth their time. So what happens? They get taught advanced specialized moves too soon! Practicly worthless, but cool all the same. Too bad they arent kids. They are happy learning and mastering the basics.

 

[Goldendragon7]

IMHO, a well organized childrens program will be an asset to any studio, financially and as a stepping stone to the Jr. and on into the Adult Classes.

"If you want to get someone to where you want them...... You must start with where they are"!

As some have stated trying to put a round peg in a square hole is difficult and even frustrating for both the student and the instructor.

Yet, a program like Mike has posted seems to be working very well for their studio, and if ask him I bet he will tell you that it can work for anyone.

A well thought out and graduated program nets many benefits, as the young student matures so does the material such as eyepokes and other material that may be deemed dangerous or that you wouldn't want to stress to the very impressionable young.

At the same time you can get a chance to have fun and emphasize basics as TOD mentioned (and the kids do love it if taught well), and can take advantage of molding youthful bodies and minds with strong principles, dicipline, respect, all the while getting them ready for survival in the streets.

Great comments.

:asian:

 

[don bohrer]

Our kids class have a limited tech chart and learn only the short kata. Since kids have tons of energy we try to make class fun by adding games, grappling and we look at interesting ways to challenge them. It's junior black until age 16. Then back through the ranks to learn the other half of the system. I think this is a money idea rather than some techs being to leathal for children. In any event we often lose older teens because of school or hormones.

I do think it's a good idea to have a kids and even a family program. Yes... some schools are run like day care. However it doesn't have to be like this. Kids can have disipline and solid basics if handled right. They just need to have fun doing it. Also kids classes bring adults in the door. If the instructor has the right vision everyone can benifit.

don

 

[Kenpo68]

Originally posted by michaeledward
At the school where I study, the 'Little Dragons', (6 or younger), they learn 3 techniques per belt, stripped down forms, and play a lot of games. I view the material much like an childs gymnastics class, learning motor skills and body-awareness.

This sounds almost identical to the children's program in our school, also called "Little Dragons."

 

[Titan Uk]

At the class that I teach in the children get a watered down version of what the adults get. This is for their protection and the clubs protection.
A little knowledge of what the adults get can be good.
The children at a young age below 12 years old can not understanding the full consequences of the adult techniques.
Other forms are included for them to replace the adult techniques.
But it is very hard to keep the children interested throughout the complete lesson.
The number of kids do seem to drop off through the summer months but generally there is a new intake of young members throught the winter months.
Only a few juniors have manged to make it to junior Black belt but then they have also fallen by the wayside due to other interest, my daughter being one.

For the past couple of months I have been running a junior and senior class at the same time. This has not been easy but once you are into the swing of things then it become easier and the kids get to look at what the adults do and they can then ask if they want to try it.

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
IMHO, a well organized childrens program will be an asset to any studio, financially and as a stepping stone to the Jr. and on into the Adult Classes.

"If you want to get someone to where you want them...... You must start with where they are"!

Agreed!
Thanks everyone for such thoughtful replies.
I really look forward to getting my Kids and Jr. programs off the ground and running (playing).
Your Brother
John

 

[Rob Broad]

Adults and children have different needs, therefore their programs should be different. Children's programs should focuson Fun, Fitness and Fundamentals. It should also work on social skill, anger management, and safety. Children can be a gold mine to an instructor who is concious of their specific needs.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think adults need to feel like they are learning dangerous and secret stuff, but for the most part the curriculum should be the same.

 

[ellaminnowpea]

I do teach kids classes (pee wees 4-7, older kids 8-12) and teen classes. Teens get precisely what the adults get, though it may take them longer to digest pricinples

Younger kids are taught the same basics, good form, kata, techniques, but it moves at a much slower pace. Rather than require the same techniques as I would from a teen or adult for each rank, I require less. As they move up in rank (and in years), my requirements for them grow.

 

[8253]

I believe childrens classes should be watered down due to the fact that personally I would not want a child to be intentionally taught how to maim or kill someone. It is not healthy for children to learn or think about such things at a young age.