Can you make this take down work - ankle pull?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    What do you think about this take down technique? Can you make it work? Your thought?

    - Both you and your opponent have left side forward (uniform stance).
    - You use left leading hand to grab on your opponent's left leading wrist and pull his left arm forward.
    - You step in your right back leg behind his leading left foot ankle.
    - You use right hand to pull his left ankle and take him down.

    The following picture starts from you have right leg forward and your opponent has left leg forward (mirror stance). You don't have to move in your back leg here.

    [​IMG]

    The following clip shows you have to move in your back leg.


     
  2. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    The ankle pick, as it’s called in folk style wrestling, is pretty common and quite effective when set up properly.

    I always taught and personally used it in a tie-up where you have one hand on the back of the neck and other hand on the elbow. I’d step back strong (forcing and/or encouraging a forward step from the opponent) then step forward and down fast while pulling their head with me while I grabbed their ankle. Grabbing the back of the heel rather than the ankle itself is better. You really don’t need to pull or twist the ankle/heel if you do this; it’ll trip them backwards when done right. Pulling it towards you while you drive forward adds a lot of force and just makes the technique so much stronger and a harder fall, which is always nice.

    When you go for the ankle is purely a timing thing. Too soon or too late won’t get it done. Just like a sweep.

    Edit: video is so much better...
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
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  3. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Yep...ankle pick. Have used it many times.
     
  4. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Eh... nothing against that old chinese illustration, but I'm not sure that would be a good way to do the ankle pick.
     
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  5. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    I learned a technique like that in Hapkido. It works fine, but I think that approaching your opponent, bending down and grabbing their leg with your arm opens you up to getting hit on the head or grabbed and choked. I think, if you're both standing up and mobile, there are other techniques that are less risky. But the setup JR showed, where you're already both grabbing each other in a clinch (and you're both based out wide so you can't use your leg to sweep your opponent's leg), then that makes a lot of sense as a way to do a takedown.
     
  6. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    If you set it up right, practically everything will work. The key is setting it up (doing the actual technique right is obviously just as important).

    It’s like when people say “X is good, you just have to cook it right.” Well, yeah, no doo-doo. If you season it right and cook it right with the right stuff, you can mask the taste of practically anything. If you set up a technique right, you can mask your intent and the openings it inherently creates.
     
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  7. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    Picture 2 in that series clearly shows the ankle picker getting punched in the head. :)

    His distance, setup, and pretty much everything else is all wrong. But it’s a picture, and as such I take it as an abstract idea to play with and try to make work. It would take a lot of work though, hence why you shouldn’t try to learn from a book.
     
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  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The "arm guiding" can solve that problem,

    In Pic 2, if you use right hand to pull your opponent's left arm downward, his left arm will jam his own back right arm. He can't punch his right hand. If you guide his left hand down close to his left ankle, you then release his left arm and grab his left ankle, his left hand won't have enough time to punch you either.

    In that clip, you use left hand to pull your opponent's left arm, at the same time you use right hand to pull his left leg, your opponent also cannot punch you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  9. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I think the picture is off.
    Lots of gaps about what is going on.or what should be going on. If you do it like it's shown in the picture then you're putting yourself at risk.
    [​IMG]
    1. Take note of the feet position
    2. Take note of the feet position. Is he moving forward or back? Is he grabbing the leg or the paints?
    3. Take note of the feet position. Did he move forward, backwards or to the sides? Why is his opponent not putting weight on the leg that is being lifted? Why is he not hoping back on the standing leg to maintain a better distance for balance and leverage?
    4. Take note of the feet position. How did that rear foot of the guy in the white pants get so close to the lead foot of the guy in the black pants. The guy in the black pants is leaning back but his opponent is falling backwards. If I want to make someone fall back like that I would lift and move forward. If I wanted to stretch someone out then I would lift and move backwards.
    I used to have an old karate book just like this, and it's still as confusing now as it was when I was a kid.

    For me personally I would never grab someone like what is in #2.
     
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  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    The picture doesn't show this

    The only way this picture makes sense is if someone intentionally drew it incorrectly to be misleading to those who are trying to learn from just the book.
     
  11. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Find this clip. Not much different from the picture that I have posted.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  12. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Roided-out monsters can make a lot of stuff work.

    The pick in that gif is still different than the pick in the illustration.
     
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  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Definitely cool but

    Only steps 1 and 2 are in this gif. The motion of the pull is missing from 3 and 4. Step 3 is not a cross body pull. Nor are the feet in the right position to do one. The body position of the defender is also not in the position of a cross body pull.

    The only way your illustration would match this gif, is if the person drew the illustration wrong so that people outside of the system or school would not be able to learn the technique. People on the inside of the system or school would understand the picture because it was something they were trained to do.

    There's a difference between illustrations that teach "How to" and illustrations that "Help remind" what you already know or may have seen in a school
     
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  14. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    Yeah, but when it’s roided our monster vs roided out monster, the ‘roids negate each other :)
     
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  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When I use this move, I'll bite my foot behind my opponent's ankle. This way when I move my hand toward his ankle, I can sense his intention from my foot contact. If my opponent moves his leg back, I can change.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  16. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    If the ‘roid strengths are directly opposing each other, yes. If the ‘roid strength is used to oppose gravity and inertia - as in snatching someone’s foot that has weight on it one handed without doing anything else to displace their body weight - then the opponent’s strength isn’t so much of a concern.

    Not being a physical beast, I have to use my other hand to push the opponent’s upper body back when performing an ankle pick. I think that’s pretty standard for the overwhelming majority of people.
     
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  17. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Great to mention the pulling the pulling the head part. Seen it left out more than a few times with less than stellar results.
     
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  18. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    Me too.
     
  19. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Master Black Belt

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    Well it's unlikely I could do it one handed. We do it in Judo and jerk the guy down by the sleeve or collar as we lift.

    It ain't nothing new. Ott Jud has it in the 1400's, and leg should be translated as "foot" in the last phrases here, as the original German uses "fueß" (foot). But it's not my translation. ;)

    "When you and your opponent have grabbed by the arms and you have your left leg forward, if he is clever and steps with his right leg behind your left from the outside to throw you over it, quickly pull your left leg back, grab his right leg and hit him in the chest above. So he will fall."
     
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  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    2 or 3 points contact throw is always better than 1 point contact throw. As far as I know, there are only 2 of this kind of 1 point contact throw. The other one is the "foot landing sweep".123
     
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