Kempojujutsu
Master Black Belt
A stomp to the head is always a fight stopper.
Boot to the Head - Myth, Fantasy, and Facts
- Thread starter Bob Hubbard
- Start date
Well, everything has its time and place. Personally, I wouldn't kick to the head unless I knew for sure that I'd be able to pull it off. Now, I'm not saying that I can't kick head height, because I can, but considering that there are other targets such as the foot, shin, knee, thigh, and groin available, why risk going to the head?
There are things that also need to be taken into consideration as well. What are you wearing for clothing? Footwear? Conditions of the ground..IE- snow, ice, etc.
Spinning/jumping kicks can be done, but again, it takes practice to be able to pull them off without telegraphing them. I've sparred and hit people with spinning back kicks, but I've also attempted those same kicks, and have been jammed up and hit.
I have seen head kicks work in NHB matches. Maurice Smith KO'd a BJJ fighter with a head kick, however, he set it up first with leg kicks. HE threw a few down low, and then shot one to the head, and landed the KO.
Mike
There are things that also need to be taken into consideration as well. What are you wearing for clothing? Footwear? Conditions of the ground..IE- snow, ice, etc.
Spinning/jumping kicks can be done, but again, it takes practice to be able to pull them off without telegraphing them. I've sparred and hit people with spinning back kicks, but I've also attempted those same kicks, and have been jammed up and hit.
I have seen head kicks work in NHB matches. Maurice Smith KO'd a BJJ fighter with a head kick, however, he set it up first with leg kicks. HE threw a few down low, and then shot one to the head, and landed the KO.
Mike
Another thing you need to take into account is the danger in kicking to the head...if you kick somebody barefoot/sandals/socks/etc (or punch for that matter) in the mouth you have a good chance of getting cut on their teeth. Not to mention that the head is an extremely hard object if you don't have enough follow through it could be like kicking a brick wall...
It's a small, quickly moving target...but if you do hit with a strong, fast kick...even if it doesn't "end" the fight...you are probably gonna buy a good slice of time to followup.
On the other hand, if you throw a kick that has nothing behind it your leg could end up resting on their shoulder....only leaving a unprotected, single supporting leg between you and and a lesson in gravity and ukemi.
It's a small, quickly moving target...but if you do hit with a strong, fast kick...even if it doesn't "end" the fight...you are probably gonna buy a good slice of time to followup.
On the other hand, if you throw a kick that has nothing behind it your leg could end up resting on their shoulder....only leaving a unprotected, single supporting leg between you and and a lesson in gravity and ukemi.
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
well, im not a super kicker by any means. i noticed a lot of people talking about fancy kicks though......spinning heel kicks, crescent kicks, roundhouse kicks...Kaith Rustaz said:
when you say kick to the head, the first thing that pops into my head is a good old fashioned front snap kick. its something that can be done cold, and in street clothes(at least for me, as i tend to wear pretty loose jeans), and with a bit of practice it can be executed in pretty close quarters. i would never target the side of someone's head in a self defense situation with a kick. straight in the face, to the point, and from out of nowhere.
thats just me though.
shawn
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I don't think I would do that. A high front kick is not necessarily a knock-out kick and then where will you be--front and center. Be prepared to keep the attack going. Even an axe kick unless you can really get some mass behind it, jumping it, is doubtful... especially for someone like me against a guy unless he is lower than my head. TW
Kaith Rustaz said:
It's a low percentage fight stopper. That doesn't mean it's a useless skill set. To hear some people tell it, all high kicks will automatically get caught, do zero damage, and have no effect whatsoever.
I don't understand how getting hit, and getting hit hard with a lot of mass behind it can't possibly hurt you.
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
I don't think I would do that.
1. A high front kick is not necessarily a knock-out kick and then where will you be--front and center.
2. Be prepared to keep the attack going.
3.Even an axe kick unless you can really get some mass behind it, jumping it, is doubtful... especially for someone like me against a guy unless he is lower than my head. TW
1.well....i dont know about you, but what good is a given weapon if it has no power. a front kick should be one of your most powerful weapons. a good front kick should be able to smash bricks.
2. executing an attack and standing around to see if it worked is a no-no in any fighting. but that is a by-product of tippy tap sparring, not real world fighting.
3. its all about knowing which weapon is right for the job.....you wouldnt use a ham sandwich to try and change a flat tire, would you?
shawn
1. A high front kick is not necessarily a knock-out kick and then where will you be--front and center.
2. Be prepared to keep the attack going.
3.Even an axe kick unless you can really get some mass behind it, jumping it, is doubtful... especially for someone like me against a guy unless he is lower than my head. TW
1.well....i dont know about you, but what good is a given weapon if it has no power. a front kick should be one of your most powerful weapons. a good front kick should be able to smash bricks.
2. executing an attack and standing around to see if it worked is a no-no in any fighting. but that is a by-product of tippy tap sparring, not real world fighting.
3. its all about knowing which weapon is right for the job.....you wouldnt use a ham sandwich to try and change a flat tire, would you?
shawn
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
As a bouncer, in younger days, used the BTTH both successfully, and not so successfully (personal fave was a rear leg low-high front snap/high roundhouse combo, but also took a shining to a more effective high-chambered shuffle-up side stamping kick).
Have also had my base leg slide out from under me (tight jeans and slippery floors don't mix), and found myself grapplnig when I would rather not.
Now, too likely to throw my back out, and that's bad news for a Chiropractor. Yay for those who can pull it off through youth or conditioning (great pictures of Jeff Newton KO'ing a cage fighter with a roundhouse to the noggin'); all the same, I'll keep my legs low and my hands up. If I wanna kick someone in the head, I'll throw them on the ground first.
Dave.
Have also had my base leg slide out from under me (tight jeans and slippery floors don't mix), and found myself grapplnig when I would rather not.
Now, too likely to throw my back out, and that's bad news for a Chiropractor. Yay for those who can pull it off through youth or conditioning (great pictures of Jeff Newton KO'ing a cage fighter with a roundhouse to the noggin'); all the same, I'll keep my legs low and my hands up. If I wanna kick someone in the head, I'll throw them on the ground first.
Dave.
Han-Mi
Purple Belt
Just to float my oppinion... I find it to be effective for myself, because I practice head kicks all the time and I am limber enough to get a good high kick off even when cold. It's not for everyone, but if you can do it then it is another weapon to add to your arsenal and all weapons are good. Definately a case by case technique.
also...my situation is a bit different...
I'm extremely flexible for a big guy and can kick well above my head when cold (axe, crescent, front) add that with the fact that I'm 6'5''....
so most people's heads fall at just the right high for a nice, easy chest level kick...
I'm extremely flexible for a big guy and can kick well above my head when cold (axe, crescent, front) add that with the fact that I'm 6'5''....
so most people's heads fall at just the right high for a nice, easy chest level kick...
GAB
3rd Black Belt
Hi all,
My side of the story is I put quite a few bouncers in Jail for kicking. ADW in CA and that is a felony.
I have also in my LEO experience had to kick a few, and hit a few with the stick and one time only, with the butt of my revolver, 6" Colt ( I know but it happened anyway) he hit the ground like a brick, had a 2 inch gash and refused stitches, spent the night in a padded bloody cell. Next day went to County General Hospital.
Back to the face kick, I have had to do it, and it was never a no stopper.
I was never kicking up, always hip level or lower and it really sounds sicking and usually there head also hits something else, going down or the ground.
Like Grand Master Kuoha has said in a prior post, makes you sad to have to hurt someone like that, but it was always in a proper setting, never done malicously, like some want to expound on.
Just my humble opinion.
Regards, Gary
My side of the story is I put quite a few bouncers in Jail for kicking. ADW in CA and that is a felony.
I have also in my LEO experience had to kick a few, and hit a few with the stick and one time only, with the butt of my revolver, 6" Colt ( I know but it happened anyway) he hit the ground like a brick, had a 2 inch gash and refused stitches, spent the night in a padded bloody cell. Next day went to County General Hospital.
Back to the face kick, I have had to do it, and it was never a no stopper.
I was never kicking up, always hip level or lower and it really sounds sicking and usually there head also hits something else, going down or the ground.
Like Grand Master Kuoha has said in a prior post, makes you sad to have to hurt someone like that, but it was always in a proper setting, never done malicously, like some want to expound on.
Just my humble opinion.
Regards, Gary
Tiger Woman, I wouldn't count that kick out so easily, A front kick off the front leg can be done as a stomp with the bottom of the foot and I'll tell you right now it has stopping power. That same kick done to the chin would in fact be a knock out blow considering you are running your heel through his jaw. Front leg kicks have much quicker recovery time so its a win win situation. Just tonight I was sparring a colored belt out of a left neutral while he was in a right and I noticed that every time he leaned foward I could just pick my leg up to catch him in the face, but again quick is key that would be a set up move on the street, but if they are hunched over for some reason use the front kick like a jab, its your fastest kick from a fighting stance. If you don't use it your self, just know people will use it on you.TigerWoman said:
Sean
KenpoTex
Senior Master
My take on the high kicks is that they can be useful in rare instances but I can't envision a situation where I would use a BTTH. For one thing, someone mentioned hitting them with the closest weapon (hands, elbows, etc.) in Kenpo we refer to this as economy of motion which I think is very tactically sound.
Another reason is that as several people have mentioned, blue-jeans and other types of street-clothing are not generally very conducive to high kicks. Something else to consider, I wear cowboy boots most of the time, I'm not going to try to execute a kick that requires that level of balance in boots on an asphalt parking lot or in a club/bar where you're liable to slip and end up on the ground regardless of what type of footwear you're wearing. Of course, slipping and falling on your butt is not limited to people that wear boots or clogs or high-heels etc. Maybe you stepped on a piece of gravel or a patch of ice when you were pivoting for your kick.
I'm not saying that high kicks are always bad, I use them in sparring quite frequently, I just don't personally feel that they are a viable option for self-defense in most cases.
Of course, I'll be more than happy to kick him in the head if I've already put him on his knees or flat on his back
Another reason is that as several people have mentioned, blue-jeans and other types of street-clothing are not generally very conducive to high kicks. Something else to consider, I wear cowboy boots most of the time, I'm not going to try to execute a kick that requires that level of balance in boots on an asphalt parking lot or in a club/bar where you're liable to slip and end up on the ground regardless of what type of footwear you're wearing. Of course, slipping and falling on your butt is not limited to people that wear boots or clogs or high-heels etc. Maybe you stepped on a piece of gravel or a patch of ice when you were pivoting for your kick.
I'm not saying that high kicks are always bad, I use them in sparring quite frequently, I just don't personally feel that they are a viable option for self-defense in most cases.
Of course, I'll be more than happy to kick him in the head if I've already put him on his knees or flat on his back
kenpoworks
Purple Belt
A long time ago in a City far away a well place roundhouse to the Jaw saved the skins of two Geordie boys who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and where about to get a "hiding".
The "CIRCUMSTANCES" happened to be perfect for the high kick,the Round House gave the two a window of opportunity to "leg it".
The "CIRCUMSTANCES" happened to be perfect for the high kick,the Round House gave the two a window of opportunity to "leg it".
ppko
Master Black Belt
In my oppinion you should practice kicking high, if you become real ggod with your higher kicks imagine how fast and powerful you kicks below the waist will be
I pulled my left hamstring about 3 months ago kicking too high, cold. Like some others have said; kick them in the head after they are bent over. Makes perfect sense to me.
ppko
Master Black Belt
couldn't agree morejfarnsworth said:
Touch'O'Death said:
Good point Sean. I was going to say the same thing, but ya beat me to it!!!
Mike
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Touch'O'Death said:
If I could do a front kick, I could also do a front kick to his groin and his knee which are better targets for a woman. In order for me to do enough punch in a front kick to a chin, I would have to hop or jump in. I don't have as much mass to punch a front leg high front especially from a standing position where you are in range to the opponent as well. Actually closer than normal range because in order to follow through on that high front kick, I would have to be very close. Not good for a woman, not good to be in that close frontally, not good if its a big guy's chin, and not good if he counters when you're coming in. We have a guy in our class who is average who loves to break boards on his chin too. Anybody lowering their head is a better target obviously, and then I would rather do an axe. Actually, targets such as groin and knee would disable him but the spin heel and axe would knock out at least or very possibly kill. TW
The Kai
Master of Arts
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It is also somewhat hard to pop your hips into a head high front thrust head kick, if the person is leaning forward a front snap kick would do the trick. The problem is then will the attacker lean forward to expose his chin?
Todd
Todd
