Best Scam

Discussion in 'Horror Stories' started by GouRonin, Oct 27, 2001.

  1. GouRonin

    GouRonin Guest

    What's the best scam you ever heard of in the martial arts? The best one I ever heard of was a guy who tacked 250.00$ onto the black belt test if the person wanted to be registered as a weapon with the police. It was pure scam but people paid for it and believed in it too.

    So what do you all think of some good scams people pull on their students? Special clubs? Etc etc...name them off!
    :soapbox:
     
  2. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

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    Three words:
    Chung Moo Do

    Cthulhu
     
  3. GouRonin

    GouRonin Guest

    I can't compete with that.
     
  4. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

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    Heh...I remember back in the mid 90's when the MA newsgroups were flooded with CMD horror stories.
    My instructor visited one of the three or four CMD schools in the Tampa area way back when and was suitably unimpressed. They kept bugging him to sign a contract when all he wanted to do was watch the class (and see how bad they were firsthand).

    I've seen some horrible CMD stories on the newsgroups back then. I think they're still around, but nowhere near as prevalent as they once were, thankfully.

    Cthulhu
    (I'm also holding another ace up my sleeve, Gou...can you say Beasely? :D)
     
  5. GouRonin

    GouRonin Guest

    Not being too familiar with JKD stuff you'll have to explain the Jerry Beasely thing.
    :confused:
     
  6. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

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    Okay, here ya go...

    Only three people were ever certified as JKD instructors by Bruce Lee: James Lee, Dan Inosanto, and Taky Kimura. Anybody claiming to teach JKD must be able to trace their lineage to one of these three people. For example, the JKD fella on this board, IFAJKD, can trace his lineage back to Inosanto, I think, via Paul Vunak.

    Beasely's certification is questionable at best. Yet, even with highly dubious certification, he has managed to get a position as a college professor teaching JKD philosophies at Radford (I believe). He and his fellow phoney JKD instructor Joe Lewis hold seminars all over. Yet neither of these men have any authentic certification to teach JKD. Beasely, like countless others, are merely making money off of Lee's name and JKD. The rat bastich. Ahem.

    Cthulhu
     
  7. GouRonin

    GouRonin Guest

    Who do they claim taught them?
     
  8. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

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    Well, Joe Lewis had about a half-dozen sessions with Bruce Lee, but never recieved ANY kind of certification from him. For quite some time, Lewis would go out of his way to state that he wasn't a student of Lee. That's awfully funny, considering he's claiming to teach JKD now.

    I think Beasely claims certification under Wong, who trained with Lee but was never a certified instructor. He may have gotten certification under another instructor at a later time, though. I haven't seen anything to back this, however.

    If IFAJKD ever comes out of lurking, he could probably offer a lot more info.

    Cthulhu
     
  9. GouRonin

    GouRonin Guest

    How does Beasly move? I mean, I know Lewis can boogie but is the stuff they are teaching THE stuff?
     
  10. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

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    To be perfectly honest, I can't say. I've seen precious little material (video, picture, etc.) of Beasely in action. There's the occasional 'action pose' in magazine ads, but they don't tell you anything.

    Cthulhu
     
  11. IFAJKD

    IFAJKD Guest

    ok...I'm not lurking ANYMORE....Beasly moves like a wounded albatras (sp?) He likes to pose as he moves to try to look like bruce and he straight blasts like a ......kitten?????? Joe does well for a kickboxer and has one hell of a history with that but JKD I don't think so. John Little had told me from Bruce's own notes that he had met with Joe...I can't remember but it was something like 4 times...I don't know and at least two of those were dinner. Though Bruce did drop him on two occassions when Joe had oinked him off. Basically Joe and Jerry are products of Ted who was never certified by Bruce for reasons nobody knows...Ted did have a lot of training time with Bruce but compared to Dan... Well Dan was the man then and still is now...Taky certified nobody, at least up to 1993. From that point he may have as Linda, Bruce's wife wanted to start the Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Nucleus. This meant they needed Instructors and the push was on. Beasly has simply angered many people including Paul and if it were 10 years ago Paul would have flown out to see him already. Today he has mellowed. Jerry has done a lot of attempted damage to subtley undermind Dan Inosanto. This is where I get a little upset beacuse I read Jerry's invitation to "feel the sting of his straight blast" if anyone didn't believe him....I really would love to feel that sting. I think it all comes down to one thing...Giving Dan Inosanto the respect he deserves. To try to discredit him to make him (Jerry) look good is very dangerous... But the part that bites me the most is a "college course" ...PLEASE.....how many people has he given this bull too? how many have bought it? it takes so much from those of us who have worked under a legitimate line to teach what JKD and FMA's influx into it was/is really about.
    EVOLUTION.
    I'M Back !
    Oh yeah the craziest thing I've heard...Jerry's invitation
     
  12. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

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    Ah, Mr. Jerry Weasely.

    I've recently read that Ted Wong was certified by Bruce, but only to 2nd rank. It is generally accepted that 2nd rank is NOT an instructor's rank, but I'm not sure if that has ever been set in stone. Regardless of that, Ted Wong never ran one of Bruce's schools and I don't think he was formally given Lee's blessing to teach, as J. Lee, Kumura, and Inosanto has.

    Joe Lewis. I too, have heard that Lewis got pounced on a couple of times by Lee. I wonder if Mr. Lewis would care to enlighten us on those instances? I bet he'd suddenly develop memory loss if asked.

    I must say that I respect Joe Lewis's accomplishments as a professional fighter, and he has helped promote martial arts in his own way. However, a JKD instructor? Nope. Not gonna swallow that one. Spoon full of sugar my a$$.

    From Radford's own Website, the JKD course is listed as a 1 credit Kung fu/JKD class, which pretty much makes it a basic phys. ed. course. However, I find it hard to believe they made him a full professor. Were they hurting THAT bad for faculty? The faculty pages lists his areas of 'expertise' as: Commercial Fitness (I can't argue with the 'commercial' part), First Aid, and Martial Arts: JKD (groan), Tae Kwondo [sic], Jiu Jitsu (what system?), Kali (what system?), Karate (what system?), and Self Defense (chortle). He apparently teaches a generic self defense and martial arts course, 3 credits each. I'd post a link here, but I don't want to pollute the board.

    Cthulhu
     
  13. IFAJKD

    IFAJKD Guest

    I'm down, I'm down. Ted didn't have Instructors cert. To the best of my knowledge he has No cert. Again this doesn't take away from time spent with Bruce. But he MUST keep it clear and he has not. Dan is clear. He not only is certified but in all three certifications Bruce has ever given. He is the ONLY one to be able to claim that. Bruce once told him that "it didn't matter how good he was, Taky was still his seinor" (Bruce was very traditional in many ways) This statement puts Dan's skills in perspective. This is why Dan helped Bruce develop JKD. He was an athlete and as such could hang for the longest with him compared to anyone Bruce had worked with. Man I could tell some stories.....But too public.....another time.
     
  14. Bob

    Bob Guest

    I know of a instructor here in Washington that had a clause in his contract stating that no black belt of his could open a school with in so many miles of his. (I can not recall the exact distance) If any of his black belts did this, he would take them to court and sue them. I didn't put much credence into this story until I met one of his black belts and I invite him into a open sparring session at Datu Wordens. He confirmed the story and also asked me and Datu to keep his visit to our school a secret because he would be kicked out of his school for associating with any other school. He knew one of the other black belts personally, who had challenged the "distance clause" in the contract, and he stated that he was indeed in court.
    Another story is that I walked into a little local school which advertised 8 styles all taught by one instructor. When he saw me walk in he ran into his office, pulled out a contract the size of a telephone book and tried to call me into his office. I proceeded to tell him that I was just curious about his style and that I just came by to watch. Then he asked me if I had previous martial experience and when I told him yes, he told me that he would not train me because I was not a beginner. Talk about wanting control over your students. He looked at me like I was infected with a disease of some kind. Then a while later a friend of mine, who was interested in martial arts came to me and asked my advise, and I told him to go look around and see what is out there. Well, he called me a couple of days later, he told me that he a school and instantly he was approached with a huge contract (right then I knew what school he was talking about)!!!! The instructor proceed to give him 20 questions and when my friend told him that he was just looking around the instructor proceed to use my friend as a demonstration dummy without his permission. Luckily my friend got out of there before the instructor could do any more damage then what he had already...........
     
  15. IFAJKD

    IFAJKD Guest

    That reminds me of one of my stories. I had a training partner and later a student who was maybe the best this Tae Kwon Do School had. They told him they were dropping his rank because he was a student of mine also. Here is this Blue...yes blue belt sparring bb and opening a can on em....man I still don't know why he stayed. BS
     
  16. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

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    Ah, the infamous Chung Moo Do raises its ugly head yet again!

    I'd bet good money that he didn't want to train you because, with your previous training, you would immediately tell he was a FRAUD the first time you saw him move! If you ever take the time, analyze CMD's claims. According to them, they are either directly or indirectly responsible for the creation of there so-called '8 martial arts taught as one'. Not a single one of the facts they give regarding those arts is accurate. Hell, they can't even get the names right.

    This was classic Chung Moo Do intimidation strategy in the early-to-mid 90's and possibly late 80's as well. This franchise of schools (yes, it was definitely a franchise) was the poster-child for legalized dojo-bashing. Many of the schools would promise the moon to get you to sign on the dotted line. Once you did, they would do their best to milk you for every cent you had, and then some.

    There are MANY horror stories of instructors physically abusing students who wouldn't sign more expensive contracts. There are equally as many stories of instructors stalking and threatening students who finally got the nerve to leave.

    The system and it's founder, 'Chung Su Nim' "Iron" Kim, were investigated for cult-like behavior. There was a lot of evidence found that many of their schools actively brainwashed their students. Students were made to worship Kim. Students were forced to send Kim monetary 'gifts' several times a year. The schools wormed their way into the students' private lives, even to the point of controlling their love lives.

    I'm glad you and your friend were wise enough not to sign the contract. It's unfortunate your friend was abused, but he is lucky that it went no further than that.

    From what I've seen, there do seem to be a couple of schools that did not resort to these money-grabbing tactics. However, the martial art taught in those schools, unfortunately, is...well, to put it bluntly...crap.

    Eventually, Kim was found guilty of not reporting all of his income...the various monetary 'gifts' and the cash payments that were demanded of many CMD students. Most of the schools with questionable practices (business and martial) have since shut down, thankfully.

    As much as I dislike Weasely, CMD was a far greater insult to all serious martial artists, everywhere. Everything bad about the martial arts; every horror story you can think of, existed in CMD.

    Cthulhu
     
  17. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

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    I went digging for some statements from former members and found a very good one that sums everything up nicely. Remember, this is from someone who managed to get out of CMD. Prepare to be disgusted:

    CMD Horror Store

    Cthulhu
     
  18. Bob

    Bob Guest

    I never heard of that organization. Thanks for the info!!!
    That school I experienced did not have that name, but sure followed the same ideologies as CMD. I remember watching the instructor smack the students upside the head if they didn't jump high enough. I walked in there because I had to see the instructor who claimed to be a master in all those disciplines....
    It was a Korean ran school too. Interesting!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks, and you are right it was disgusting......
    Bob
     
  19. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

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    No problem. I consider it a duty to inform others of bad martial arts schools.

    Some CMD schools changed their name to Oom Yung Do, while still others use both names. There have been a few schools who left the organization and changed their name altogether, though they still teach much of the same material.

    Here's another person who I've heard called a scam artist by a couple of people I respect: Richard Clear, a Pentjak Silat 'master' located in Tampa, FL.

    Cthulhu
     
  20. IFAJKD

    IFAJKD Guest

    I get concerned about real names although I have mentioned Weasly. I guess he just gets me in a very real way. Anyway have you seen this Silat man. Just checking because I have seen many people not understand what they see and chock it up as a fraud because they didn't get it. Not saying that's the case here but curious. If he is I would like to know in what way he is. Can you elaborate ?
     

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