Apologize? I would have tackled them!

Discussion in 'The Study' started by Bill Mattocks, Mar 15, 2011.

  1. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Priests and religious are obligated to pray several times a day in the Catholic Church; many lay people also pray the Liturgy of the Hours. From the Wikipedia page I linked above:

     
  2. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    Are you this abrasive in person?
     
  3. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    if you consider THAT abrasive, you need a thicker skin my friend. And yes I am. Why do you think I got into martial arts?
     
  4. 5-0 Kenpo

    5-0 Kenpo Master of Arts

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    Says the one who constantly accuses others of making personal attacks and violating the TOS.

    :roflmao:
     
  5. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    Actually I think it was one of your milder responses. Just a thought that struck me.
     
  6. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    i didnt think it was abrasive at all, i guess i need to re-calibrate
     
  7. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

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    I happen to think that it was a fair question myself.

    I've been staying out of this one because it triggers my anti-religion gene too strongly but I have been thinking the same thing as I have been following the thread.

    I understand the strength of feeling belief in organised mythology engenders but I do not understand how someone with such beliefs feels it makes them exceptions to the same rules that everyone else has to follow.

    None of what I have read so far makes that clear for me (tho' of course it may be that I have not fully read what posters have meant, in which case I'll be happy to sit corrected).
     
  8. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    If you referring to my question to Twin Fist, it was just on the tip of my tongue (or fingers) since it was actually by far not his strongest response.

    As to the original incident....
    you are right I suppose.
     
  9. CanuckMA

    CanuckMA Master of Arts

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    Thanks JKS.
     
  10. CanuckMA

    CanuckMA Master of Arts

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    I've already stated that they were wrong to insist on praying standing up. For that, their fault. But wearing a tallit and teffilin for morning prayer is not optional. Why should I give up my beliefs because of your ignorance?

    It would take a few minutes in a flight attendant's training schedule to instruct them in the morning prayer accoutrement of an Orthodox Jew. Jut add a half day for the 5 minute toour of the religions of the world in the training.
     
  11. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well, considering the chances that coming up (I am sure it will be included for the future, at least on that airline...).

    However...for the future I'd be personally even more suspicious...I mean, we know the screening is crap, so what keeps a would be terrorist from using such harmless device...

    Ah, yes, buying into the paranoia now.... slap me please!

    It's a matter of miscommunication. I am not sure how the rules are in packing those babies into a case that can be stored in the foot room under the seat in front of you, but that would scrap the need to get up in mid flight (I mean, that's were you pack the stuff you are likely to need often during the flight...)
     
  12. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

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    There's the disjunct that prevents a discussion on a pragmatic level.

    You don't give up your beliefs because of my ignorance; that wasn't the question. I was just supporting what was asked i.e. why it was assumed that a group of peoples 'scary' behaviour in an already 'scary' space being prompted by a mythological belief system allows them more leeway than anyone else. It's a fair question.

    Surely the sensible route is to follow the legal channels available to obtain exemption and until then abide by the pertinent regulations?

    For me, I would not be 'freaked out' by such behaviour as I have the priviledge of actually having had a religious studies education of all the major faiths whilst at school (with a teacher who was an agnostic, thankfully, so he had no particular sect to promote). On top of which I was brought up from birth in a staunchly religious environment, achieving enlightenment of my own as I hit my 'teens and leaving such matters behind but still retaining the memories of what I was taught.

    Others are not so fortunate in the plurality of their experience and react very badly when confronted with the 'weird' when they can't get away from it.
     
  13. Archangel M

    Archangel M Senior Master

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    It would also take a few minutes of the worshipers time to explain "dont freak out, but I have to pray right now. This object has a sacred script in it see?" Understanding and consideration doesn't fall entirely on one sides shoulders.
     
  14. CanuckMA

    CanuckMA Master of Arts

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    The teffilin contains verses of Torah. They can't not be stored underfoot.
     
  15. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    Figured there would be a problem....
     
  16. SensibleManiac

    SensibleManiac Black Belt

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    You mean cannot be stored underfoot, right?

    Either way, a little explanation on their part would have prevented much trouble.
     
  17. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

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    I have never, ever seen these contraptions. Ever. I'm 45 and I've flown before.

    I've also never seen a faithful Jew block traffic or even go off to the side to say prayers in public.

    I'm pretty open-minded and am the kind of person to say, 'can the boxes be x-rayed' and 'it would be more than appropriate to train flight attendants about cultural or religious paraphernalia,' etcetera.

    I'm also one to say, 'if you don't want the FBI up your *** about these things you're strapping to your body during a flight, you'd better ****ing answer all questions about them and have as much discussion with the flight attendants as they need to be reasonably comfortable or at least make an informed decision as to whether the will allow the wiggle room or not.

    I have to agree with Bill on this one.

    And I'd prefer to err on the side of safety (and yes, perhaps ignorance) than just sit on my hands like a mook.
     
  18. CanuckMA

    CanuckMA Master of Arts

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    You need to be on a long haul flight (4+ hours) that takes off before sunrise.

    Because most of us pary before or after the fliht, or if we need to do it onboard, stay seated.

    Yes, they can be x-rayed, just not opened for inspection. So much easier to educate flight crews.
     
  19. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

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    I admit I've only been on such a flight about six or seven times over my lifetime; between here and New York, Houston (always a connected flight, usually into O'Hare or St. Louis), Hawai'i or Nashville (also a connected flight).
    I assumed this - and I've seen the shawls but never the tefflin and I truly am sensitive to religious ritual ... it's just that these are sensitive times and, truthfully, when others are lighting their tennis shoe laces on fire, it's easy (I think) to be suspicious of small boxes strapped in such a fashion. Not many, I think, have seen this.
    [/quote]
    I *still* think the flight crews should be educated to things like this - I'm rather shocked they are not, but then unexpected ignorance usually does. I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't know anything about tefflin.

    I appreciate your understanding here.
     
  20. CanuckMA

    CanuckMA Master of Arts

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    I *still* think the flight crews should be educated to things like this - I'm rather shocked they are not, but then unexpected ignorance usually does. I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't know anything about tefflin.

    I appreciate your understanding here.[/quote]

    The conditions have to be just right. You need to be on a flight with Orthodox Jews. It needs to take off before sunrise and be long enough to land after the latest permitted time for morning prayer. There are not many such flights.

    I agree that flight crews should be instructed. If I'm about to start morning prayers, do I inform a) people next to me?, b) across the aisle? c) in front?, d) behind?, e) flight crew?

    Accounting for the rudeness of some people, it would be a lot simpler for everyone if the flight crews would have an understanding of what I'm doing should queries arise.123
     

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