Anyone heard of this guy?

[KENPOJOE]

Anybody with that many ultra high ranks is bogus. There is not enough time on God's green earth to be legit with that resume! They most likely are "bought", "crossed over" or the very prevalent.... "good ole boy" promotion routine.

No doubt the man has "some" sort of ability or experience but more of a "jack of all trades master of none" {except with official certification, of course ..... lol}.

Funny to visit these guys sites however, lets you know where NOT to study!

Dear Dennis,
As i've explained in a previous post in response regarding ranks and levels,If a person creates something that is uniquely theirs, they are the founder of that given art. Sijo Smith has always been willing to instruct and perform his art over the years. It never ceases to amaze me how some people cannot grasp the concept of training in different arts at different studios at the same time or training with one given instructor in differents arts at the same studio. None of Sijo's ranks from were "bought", rather given to him in recognition of his career and accomplishments [you could read into that as a "good ol' boy" type of thing, but all organizations do that]
as far as the "let's you know where not to study" comment :2xBird2:
just telling Dennis he's number one!...twice! ROFLMAO!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

It must be a coincidence that the "masters" that vouch for their legitmacy usually have 10-20 high ranks of their own. Whole lot of back slapping going on.

Gee John,
Sorry if you find my resume "doubtful" but I'm always "more than happy" to demonstrate my skills in the various arts that I have rank in! I've performed in tournament competitions,seminars,demonstrations,classes, videos, etc...so that people do know I walk the walk and talk the talk...now if I can do that and chew gum at the same time that I'm really got it together!! LOL!!!!
Seriously, I wish people would figure out that some arts simply do not have the detailed curriculum that others do. Therefore it is far easier to learn certain arts in a relatively short amunt of time. If a given art is in many ways similar to the previous arts you've studied, then that makes it easier as well...
I hope that I was of some service,
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[John Bishop]

Gee John,
Sorry if you find my resume "doubtful" but I'm always "more than happy" to demonstrate my skills in the various arts that I have rank in! I've performed in tournament competitions,seminars,demonstrations,classes, videos, etc...so that people do know I walk the walk and talk the talk...now if I can do that and chew gum at the same time that I'm really got it together!! LOL!!!!
Seriously, I wish people would figure out that some arts simply do not have the detailed curriculum that others do. Therefore it is far easier to learn certain arts in a relatively short amunt of time. If a given art is in many ways similar to the previous arts you've studied, then that makes it easier as well...
I hope that I was of some service,
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

Actually Joe, I've never read your resume. So I have no clue as to what ranks you may have. I presume you do have a Kenpo rank, since you call yourself KenpoJoe.
I was speaking in generalities about the several resumes that I have read of people claiming 10-20 high black belt ranks. And how they usually vouch for the ones they received rank from, or the ones that they have given rank to.
Surprising how some people receive high ranks from instructors hundreds, or even thousands of miles away, that they never even stepped on a mat with.

But since someone asked about Mr. Smith, I am curious about his claims. You wrote that he only trained up to brown belt equilivent with his instructor? And then thru his own self training, he became a 10th degree? Actually, several 10th degrees? Can you elaberate more on this process?

 

[RRouuselot]

Gee John,
Sorry if you find my resume "doubtful" but I'm always "more than happy" to demonstrate my skills in the various arts that I have rank in! I've performed in tournament competitions,seminars,demonstrations,classes, videos, etc...so that people do know I walk the walk and talk the talk...

Do you have any mpegs on line that we can see?

 

[RRouuselot]

But since someone asked about Mr. Smith, I am curious about his claims. You wrote that he only trained up to brown belt equilivent with his instructor? And then thru his own self training, he became a 10th degree? Actually, several 10th degrees? Can you elaberate more on this process?

 

[RRouuselot]

But since someone asked about Mr. Smith, I am curious about his claims. You wrote that he only trained up to brown belt equilivent with his instructor? And then thru his own self training, he became a 10th degree? Actually, several 10th degrees? Can you elaberate more on this process?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[KENPOJOE]

Actually Joe, I've never read your resume. So I have no clue as to what ranks you may have. I presume you do have a Kenpo rank, since you call yourself KenpoJoe.
I was speaking in generalities about the several resumes that I have read of people claiming 10-20 high black belt ranks. And how they usually vouch for the ones they received rank from, or the ones that they have given rank to.
Surprising how some people receive high ranks from instructors hundreds, or even thousands of miles away, that they never even stepped on a mat with.

But since someone asked about Mr. Smith, I am curious about his claims. You wrote that he only trained up to brown belt equilivent with his instructor? And then thru his own self training, he became a 10th degree? Actually, several 10th degrees? Can you elaberate more on this process?

Hi John,
gee, i was surprised that you've never been to my website, where my list of ranks are listed? Gosh, I've looked at your website over the years!
Thankfully, all my ranks were awarded to me by people who i've actually trained with,studied under and performed in front of personally. What I wrote in the earlier post was that Sifu Sung had no ranking system per se to allocate rank to Mr. Smith so he stated to him he was equivalent to a brown belt for lack of a better term. It was Mr. Smith himself who took that description to heart and had various martial artists gathered together to see his material so they would recognize him as a "black Belt". Years later, he would elaborate upon his own creation and list himself as "founder" of the Shao Choy Hung system as it's own entity. The process is mentioned in earlier posts.
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[KenpoDave]

You wrote that he only trained up to brown belt equilivent with his instructor? And then thru his own self training, he became a 10th degree? Actually, several 10th degrees? Can you elaberate more on this process?

Being that this is the kenpo board, it is a rather interesting question.

John, you question the very legitimacy of James Mitose. He promoted Thomas Young who in turn promoted Chow to black belt. Chow in turn promoted Emperado. Emperado is now a 10th degree black belt and you are a 7th in his style. So, how did Emperado get to be a 10th when he was only taught to black belt? Or Parker for that matter. He was also a 10th, but whether or not he even got a black belt from Chow is a matter of controversy.

Personally, I think the process is very similar for everyone who claims to be a 10th degree black belt. Basically, they put it on, and people either accept it or they don't. And typically the first guy sets the standard for his system at that point. You are a 7th because a standard for achieving that rank has been set, and you have achieved that standard.

 

[John Bishop]

Being that this is the kenpo board, it is a rather interesting question.

John, you question the very legitimacy of James Mitose. He promoted Thomas Young who in turn promoted Chow to black belt. Chow in turn promoted Emperado. Emperado is now a 10th degree black belt and you are a 7th in his style. So, how did Emperado get to be a 10th when he was only taught to black belt? Or Parker for that matter. He was also a 10th, but whether or not he even got a black belt from Chow is a matter of controversy.

Personally, I think the process is very similar for everyone who claims to be a 10th degree black belt. Basically, they put it on, and people either accept it or they don't. And typically the first guy sets the standard for his system at that point. You are a 7th because a standard for achieving that rank has been set, and you have achieved that standard.

Fair question, since many people have promoted themselves to 10th degree after founding their own system or subsystem.

And yes, myself and many others doubt the accuracy of James Mitose’s claims about his training and grandmaster lineage. But it’s very possible that we may never find out all the truth about Mitose’s martial arts background.

And if his legitimacy is in doubt, then technically one could say the legitimacy of his promotions is in doubt. But after this many years, the subject is probably moot.

And as I’ve said in the past, “if it wasn’t for men like William Chow, Adriano Emperado, Ed Parker, and Al Tracy, no one would know who James Mitose was, or care”. Because of the hard work and efforts of these men, the Hawaiian derived kenpo systems now have a worldwide following.

Three of these men claim a rank of 10th degree, and William Chow claimed a rank of 15th degree. Since three of these men have their own followers who can better speak of their ranks, I will only talk of Sijo Emperado’s.

Sijo Emperado was ranked up to 5th degree by William Chow, and received a “instructors certificate” from James Mitose. Decades later he was awarded a 10th degree rank from the “Chinese Physical Culture Association of Hawaii”. This organization,which is still in existance, was the first Chinese martial arts association outside of China. And there are still many members who were witness to Sijo Emperado’s promotion.

As to Ed Parker’s black belt promotion, I see no contraversy, only rumors. Sijo Emperado was William Chow’s highest ranking black belt at the time of Ed Parker’s promotion. He says that Chow asked him to read to him a letter that he had received from Ed Parker. The letter requested a black belt promotion from Chow because Parker had started teaching his own students on the mainland. Sijo say’s that Chow did in fact promote Parker to black belt at that time. Now you can doubt his word, but Sijo has absolutely nothing to gain from saying William Chow did, or did not promote Ed Parker to first degree.

As to the so called “Black Belt Certificate” that has been posted on the internet after Mr. Parker’s passing. I showed a copy of it to Sijo last Saturday. He said that he did not feel it was legitimate.

The two reasons he cited were:

• The signature didn’t look like Chow’s
• Chow didn’t give black belt certificates at that time.

He said that the only one from that era that had a black belt certificate from William Chow was him. And that was only because it was the highest rank Chow had given at the time, “5th degree Chief Instructor”.

Al Tracy has said that “he never saw any certificates at Mr. Parker’s school”. That dosen’t mean that Mr. Parker wasn’t a Chow black belt, because none of William Chow’s 1st degree black belts from that era had certificates.

 

[Karazenpo]

I tried to stay out of this one because these things become too controversal, too heated, too much mud and everyone ends up getting beat on. I also totally understand why many view things in the arts today with skeptism, just look how many times we've been bullsh_tted over the years! Having said that I first would like to say that I have debated Shaun (Kenpo5th) on this forum and found him to honest, intelligent, fair minded and a gentlemen. However, we (my wife Kathy & I) also had the pleasure of spending some time with Shaun last month over a two day period when Sijo Gascon made a trip to Massachusetts and Rhode Island and this only confirmed my forum impression of him but let me add, he also has a helluva sense of humor. As a matter of fact, Shaun only lives about 30 minutes from me so I can confirm that he is a highly respected martial arts instructor in the area. I haven't seen Sijo Smith just like I haven't seen others but at this point, if he says he's the real deal I will take his word on it. Now, KenpoJoe Rebelo, unlike Shaun, I didn't initally meet Joe on the forum but in person at a Master Bill Chun Jr. seminar at my instructor's school, Hanshi Craig Seavey, co-head of Nick Cerio's Kenpo. I've been in his company several times since. I found Joe to be very personable and always ready to help a brother or sister martial artist. We sometimes debate and once in a while may not agree on something which is perfectly normal and my wife Kathy and I like Joe. We also spent some time with him last month. KenpoJoe is way too knowledgable to be fooled by someone who is not what they are cracked up to be. Hey, that's just my honest opinion. So, again, if Joe says he's the real deal until I see otherwise, I will take Joe's word on it.
Now, this thing about rank and 10th degrees, legitimate grandmasters, founders and so forth.........Here's what I've learned in over three decades. As most of you know, I originally got my start along with many, many others with Gm. Fred Villari in those early years when things weren't so commercialized. Actually, it was now Hanshi Seavey of NCK who brought me to black belt and sponsered me for my test. (see the Who is Fred Villari post for any questions) Way back then, Fred was taking all kinds of heat for his 10th degree ranking, although like many others since, he justified it by being the undisputed 'head honcho' of his own thing, which back then was: Fred Villari's United Studios of Self Defense teaching his perspective of what was called then 'Chinese Kenpo Karate' and for a certain period called 'Sho Tung Kwok' (which is also the name of the form which represents the nucleus of his system, see Black Belt magazine, May '75). The Villari critics in the martial arts world were everywhere, jumping on this one! As time went on and I got more and more into the history and had the chance to meet more and more knowledgable people, I started going down the Hawiian-derived Kenpo/Kempo lineage trees of systems, branches and subsystems and their true backgrounds. I began to get a different picture of things. I found that Mr. Villari's problem was that he sh_t in his own backyard. He trained in Rhode Island, lived in Massachusetts and set up his initial schools in New England. Very easy to trace his training to the late Professor Nick Cerio of Wawrick, R.I. I found that the most vehement Villari critics' past training and rankings also came under some serious scrutiny when given a close look. I'm not saying they weren't excellent martial artists in their own right, they were and I respected their abilities and contributions, but they certainly misrepresentated themselves as far as their training and ranking went, only difference was they either lived thousands of miles away or they claimed certain high ranks and training from many thousands of miles away including Hawaii, Okinawa, Japan, Korea and California. So now, I just keep out of this legitimate rank thing. Unlike many Mitose detractors, it doesn't bother me whether he was awarded a black belt or not, it doesn't bother me whether our roots are from Japan or Okinawa as is controversial of late and it's fine with me if he was actually the 1st descendant of Kosho ryu rather than the 21st because simply he is the one who started this whole 'kenpo thing'. My only beef is not having the truth told to us about it no matter what it is. Sorry for the long winded post but I felt I had to contribute to this debate. I wish Sijo Smith a complete and speedy recovery. Thanks. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

PS: I physically train hard, and although I keep my weight down, let me say this about that. Several years ago I was watching the 'tough man' boxing bouts that had been sponsered by Vince McMahon (nothing choreographed, this was for real) There were some tough, 'ripped' and talented fighters along with the usual 'bums' too. Well, I saw this guy, 'Butterbean', he had to be at least 350 lbs and believe me, it wasn't all muscle, either, lol. He fought a guy, I think his name was Bart Gunn who had previously been knocking guys out left and right. excellent fighter, cut and ripped, strong as hell. Well, unfortunately for me, lol, I bet on Gunn beating Butterbean. Needlessly to say it was all over in less than a minute, Butterbean by knockout. So, I don't judge anyone's abilities on looks alone.

 

[Karazenpo]

Let us not forget this one either which confirms what Robert had stated in reference to Gichen Funakoshi:


"Of course, the Butoku-kai continued to sanction head teachers directly. This was not without controversy, however, since Konishi sat on the board that awarded Funakoshi his renshi and Konishi had been Funakoshi's student. Of course, Konishi had inside ties to the Butoku-kai by virtue of birth, something the Okinawan Funakoshi could not have."

I say: I believe from what I read that the Butoku-kai was originally a judo/jiu jitsu/aikido & kendo kai (original Japanese martial arts) and as Robert had pointed out, Konishi was ranked in kendo/kenjutsu or some related sword art. In the early years, we, in Kenpo/Kempo/Kajukenbo, were berated by Shotokan stylists that theirs was a 'traditional, true and pure' art not a 'bastardized system like ours and so forth, then as we all become more knowledgable, low and behold, we find Shotokan is an altered hybrid or eclectic blending of Shorin ryu and Shorei ryu. Hello? Then they go and attack our higher ranks and what happens? On closer look we find Funakoshi gets a 5th/renshi from a judo/kendo kai where his student sits on the ranking board, holding rank in a sword art! Gimme a break, lol. I realize that since the Butoku-kai has expanded to take in a broader range of martial arts, but still......

 

[Thunderbolt]

i don't understand why certain people want to have more than 10 degree BB.???

i also certainly don't understand why they call it their own art since they *found* something in art when they actually are teaching a chinese art.?

 

[Operator06]

What a conversation this turned out to be. Thank you KenpoJoe for your posts on Mr. Smith.

Sijo Smith was in the seals and when it was found out that he was proficient in the martial arts, the H2H instructor asked Sijo Smith to assist in the instruction of the recuits in the program. no big lofty title involved. he was asked to do so because he exhibited a skill in the arts that apparently the other recuits did not, or perhaps the instructor saw promise in Mr. smith at that time, I don't personally know.
I hope that I was of some service,

What I'd like to know is what BUD's Class Mr. Smith was in. I am a recent Navy Veteran and have a few shipmates that went to try out for BUD's. One thing they say is that you never forget it! I was wondering if you could shed some light as to what BUD's class he was in. One thing I can't stand is someone who is not who they say they are, being a Navy man SEAL Imposters are one of the things that gets stuck in my craw. Please don't get me wrong, it's just that there are too many imposters out there, and SEALs work too hard for what they have.

 

[Karazenpo]

i don't understand why certain people want to have more than 10 degree BB.???

i also certainly don't understand why they call it their own art since they *found* something in art when they actually are teaching a chinese art.?

Yeah, but you know Thunderbolt, you wonder how much of it is just a marketing ploy and I don't mean this disrepectfully to anyone. I mean for advertising purposes. You could have a high overhead and have to pay the bills. It's like beefing up a resume for a job, know what I mean? A lot of Americans are still into the more is better syndrome and they see that in the Yellow Pages or on the web and they're impressed so they call or visit. Of course, the other reason is ego or it can be a combination of both. Who knows unless you know the individual doing it. As far as the 'founder' thing, I try to stay away from that controversal issue also. Too many founders these days, all that is being done now is 're-inventing the wheel'. How many different ways can one put something together anymore in order to teach someone how to kick butt? I personally feel many do it because of ego and they just won't except being second banana to someone else, others just want that 'once' highly coveted 10th dan. In the words of Gm. S. George Pesare: "Everyone's a sijo these days"

PS: One other point, if these 10th dan certificates are just as 'recognized' as anyone elses 10th dan certificates then no one has much of an argument. What can you say? Let's face it, you have more crediability being a lesser rank today, people and fellow martial artists are more likely to believe it. When people hear 10th dan they usually think, yeah, right!, lol.

 

[Karazenpo]

What a conversation this turned out to be. Thank you KenpoJoe for your posts on Mr. Smith.




What I'd like to know is what BUD's Class Mr. Smith was in. I am a recent Navy Veteran and have a few shipmates that went to try out for BUD's. One thing they say is that you never forget it! I was wondering if you could shed some light as to what BUD's class he was in. One thing I can't stand is someone who is not who they say they are, being a Navy man SEAL Imposters are one of the things that gets stuck in my craw. Please don't get me wrong, it's just that there are too many imposters out there, and SEALs work too hard for what they have.

Operator06, I hear ya. We had a guy in our town who was going around saying he was a Navy Seal, still does. An ex-Marine I work with had some knowledge of where they train and so forth through a Navy friend of his. He questioned him. The guy was a phony. He also tried to pass himself off as a kickboxing champ, I made a point to question him on that one-same results. A couple of years ago, we had a Marine Sgt. Vietnam war hero, featured in the papers, ran Toys for Tots at Christmas with the local police, had medals up the ying yang. Our Daily News did a feature on him and had him going down in a helicopter crash, saving the pilot, holding his guts in dragging him through the jungle. His wife attested to him waking up in cold sweats at night screaming. One day the local papers featured him on the front page with his medals. A couple Vietnam vets called the papers saying he couldn't possibly have that medal at a Sgt.'s rank. He was investigated. Are you ready for this one. He was discharged from the Marine's as a Corporal, late 50's I think. Never saw action, never left the states. The only place he saw action was Louisiana State Penitentiary on burglary convictions, lol.

 

[Operator06]

That's what I mean, those guys (SEALs) work way too hard to have someone just "claim" to be a SEAL.

 

[KempoShaun]

However, we (my wife Kathy & I) also had the pleasure of spending some time with Shaun last month over a two day period when Sijo Gascon made a trip to Massachusetts and Rhode Island and this only confirmed my forum impression of him but let me add, he also has a helluva sense of humor.

Cheers "Joe!" yes, we did have a good time with Sijo Gascon, didn't we? LOL, I hope I get some of that Whiskey next time he comes up! As for your comments about me, much appreciated and reciprocated my friend. I'd clap in response to your post, but it might not be my turn :wink2: As far as people doubting KenpoJoe... Man, I ain't even going there. Ok, maybe I will. I'm lucky enough to train with Joe on a weekly basis, and trust me, everyone of his "High Ranks in Several Arts" is well earned. We'll be working on my Shaolin Kempo and he'll show me how the technique would be applied in 15 other arts. Mind-boggling, truly mind-boggling. One of those arts by the way, is Sijo Smith's Shao Choy Hung :boing2:

Namaste

 

[Karazenpo]

The whiskey, Shaun, the whiskey, hope to join you! Cheers to you too 'Brother'! It's a good thing Kathy didn't have any that night, she would have really been clapping, LOL. Take care & Be safe...........and Have a great Thanksgiving, Joe & Kathy

 

[RRouuselot]

1) I say: I believe from what I read that the Butoku-kai was originally a judo/jiu jitsu/aikido & kendo kai (original Japanese martial arts) and as Robert had pointed out, Konishi was ranked in kendo/kenjutsu or some related sword art.
2) In the early years, we, in Kenpo/Kempo/Kajukenbo, were berated by Shotokan stylists that theirs was a 'traditional, true and pure' art not a 'bastardized system like ours and so forth, then as we all become more knowledgable, low and behold, we find Shotokan is an altered hybrid or eclectic blending of Shorin ryu and Shorei ryu. Hello? Then they go and attack our higher ranks and what happens? On closer look we find Funakoshi gets a 5th/renshi from a judo/kendo kai where his student sits on the ranking board, holding rank in a sword art! Gimme a break, lol. I realize that since the Butoku-kai has expanded to take in a broader range of martial arts, but still......

1) Yes the Butokukai was the original Good ol’ boyz club for right wing Japanese and basically wanted to control everything in the “Japanese” MA world. After WWII it was abolished by the GHQ on the grounds it was too ultra right wing, and since then has never been much of anything except an over glorified dan factory.
2) Don’t feel bad….in Japan Shotokan berates every style that doesn’t belong to them.

 

[RRouuselot]

i don't understand why certain people want to have more than 10 degree BB.???

I think in psychological terms the call it “over compensating” :ultracool