Anti-Grappling Techniques...

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kababayan, May 7, 2017.

  1. Kababayan

    Kababayan Blue Belt

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    Hello everyone,
    I posted this in one of the other threads also, I hope that the mods don't mind. This is my first post here and I am hoping that some of you can help me out with some research. I haven't been on one of these types of forums for years, as back then most of the posts were people just bad-mouthing other martial artists. I am hoping to have a better experience here. So that I don't drag out explanation before getting to the question, I'll ask it first and then give explanation. I am trying to put together a list of grappling counters to be used after a takedown has happened. What techniques, if any, have any of you come across that are effective to counter a grappler after a takedown has happened? Most of what I have seen is about sprawling and not be taken down, but I am looking for the best way to beat a grappler without turning it into a "who's better at BJJ" contest.

    I have a list of what I've seen so far and would like to add to it. I have been training in various martial arts for 35 years, mostly in more traditional arts. About ten years ago I began training in various "reality based self defense" to fill in the self defense gaps that my traditional arts have. I found Krav Maga about four years ago. I recently got my Black Belt in Krav, and as much as I love it, most of the grappling defense techniques are effective against basic grapplers. I am looking for something that will work even with very experienced grapplers. I know that the easiest response would be to learn to grapple better but, as a stand up fighter, I don't want to rely on having to out grapple an experienced grappler. Plus at my age training full time in BJJ isn't an option anymore. I do have some grappling experience (about a year at Gracies and 10th Planet combined) so I do know the terminology and moves. I am more focusing on hitting them with something they don't expect. Any help is greatly appreciated. Here is what I have collected so far. Three of the four I saw occur during "friendly" Jiu Jitsu matches (not street fights.) The Vunak bite (kina mutay) was taught to me when I trained with Paul and some of his students.

    - When a triangle choke was attempted: Before the choke was cinched in the person in the choke bit the inner thigh and then hammered the groin of the grappler and then stood up.

    - Off of a double leg (Paul Vunak's Kina Mutay): The person being taken down wraps the grappler in a guard, holds the grappler's head tight, and bites into the grappler's cheek. When the grappler pushes back, you release and stand up.

    - Off a side control: Reach in between the legs of the person on top and grab and squeeze the groin to get your opponents hips up, either your opponent lets go or you have a chance to get your legs under and pull to your guard.

    - If you are in a person's guard: Sit back, hammer or punch your opponent's groin. Stand up and get away. (Krav move)

    Any more added to the list is greatly appreciated. Helpful responses only please. Thank you,

    Kab
     
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  2. Mou Meng Gung Fu

    Mou Meng Gung Fu Purple Belt

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    Without going into any specific techniques, the best way to counter grappling is to learn as much grappling as you can benefit from. I've learned that the best thing you can do on your back in guard is to go with the flow and try not to exert your energy. Let the opppnent decide where your energy goes. Use your feet like monkey's paws. Do shrimp crawls and practice escapes. When an opening presents itself, go for a strike. Use your elbows, knees, headbutts, kicks and yes, even your teeth and nails. But do not make a plan to strike. You must learn to flow and move naturally without thinking.
     
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  3. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    What is the best way to speak French without learning to speak French?

    What, you're asking Moi?
     
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  4. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    If you try that with a grappler, you're going to get seriously hurt, or possibly (depending on the mentality of your attacker) killed. Most of the stuff you posted is pure fantasy anyway. The Guard and the Triangle Choke tend to be purely defensive moves, and are mainly employed if your opponent achieved a positional advantage on the ground. There's little need to learn how to counter a Triangle Choke or Guard unless you're training to fight in MMA or Bjj, or you're just a jerk that likes to attack people.

    Problem is, those counters wouldn't work anyway against someone skilled in those techniques, and sound like they were thought up by someone who saw videos or illustrations and never experienced fighting from those positions.

    If you want to learn how to stop grappling, you need to learn grappling, period.
     
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  5. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    What's been said above.
     
  6. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    your over complicating it, hit them, kick them elbow them and knee them, don't grapple with them once they realise that trying to grab your legs or arm is a very painful experience they will stop it
     
  7. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You don't grapple much do you?
     
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  8. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    I have, but generaly I don't need to, I punch people and they generaly fall over, if that doesn't work I hit them again if it gets up close I grab their Adams apple till they pass out
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
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  9. DanT

    DanT 2nd Black Belt

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    I would say the most important is:

    -learning to stand up when an opponent is in your guard

    -learning to escape a full mount especially with ground and pound

    -learning to escape side control

    -learn what to do when your back is taken

    These are the 4 most common places you will find yourself vs a grappler. Learn to escape them and get back to your feet quickly (under 5 seconds).
     
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  10. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Of course they do. :D they stand there and let you hit them. What martial art/s do you actually do?
     
  11. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

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    This is pretty much it, if anything could be considered effective "anti-grappling" meaning a way to defeat a superior wrestler / grappler that manages to take you down it would be having a good guard.
     
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  12. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    your back making things up again
    I didn't say they stood there or that they let me, just if I catch them clean they fall over
    if I dont catch them clean I keep hitting them till I do
     
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  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    To kick or to knee your opponent, you just give your wrestler opponent a chance to grab your leg. For your opponent to grab your leg, he has to redirect your arms, get a correct angle, and move in. If your opponent is a good wrestler, your kick and knee just save him a lot of extra trouble.

    Also if your opponent can get into clinch, it will be difficult to punch him any more.

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    Last edited: May 8, 2017
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  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    but he has to get that close, wrestling is alright for fat blokes that can't punch
     
  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Assume your opponent just holds a boxing guard (or any guard), runs toward you, and gives up his punching ability. If you don't knock him down at that moment, he will get the clinch he wants. The concern is if your opponent concentrates 100% on defense, how much chance can you knock him down/out when he moves in?

    IMO, this is the advantage that a wrestler has over a striker. The wrestler can afford to give up all his punching ability, play defense, and look for that clinch. The striker just can't give up his striking. This is why I believe that "anti-striking" exists but "anti-grappling" doesn't exist.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  16. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    The best anti-grappling technique is to not grapple with a grappler.

    The time for eye pokes and dirty tricks is before they get ahold of you.

    End the fight quickly or find a way to disengage and retreat. Once you're on the ground or in the clinch....too late.
     
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  17. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    1st I want to know who nailed my feet to the floor
     
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  18. TonyU

    TonyU Yellow Belt

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    This is post is not to pick on anyone or anyone's styles, but I see some posts here with similar thought process that I've had throughout my training and career.
    What if my opponents grappling is better than my standup. That's an objective question I had to ask myself after over 20 years of standup. Even when my standup has served me well in my career. So I joined a BJJ school to find out.
    What did I find out? That all the "techniques" I thought would work, didn't! The opposite happened. Those techniques actually set me up for failure.
    Now BJJ supplements my stand up very well. While going to the ground will never be my first choice I have enough of a skill set to know what to do if I wind up there.
    Plus, lightning hit me twice. I fell in love with another art.
     
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  19. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Terrible advice. Many grapplers are well trained to close the distance and control tempo. Wrestlers are especially good at closing gaps and changing height very quickly, and just about every grappling heavy group (MMA, Bjj, Sombo, etc.) are taking from those set ups.

    Further, dirty tricks are pretty low percentage overall. Who has a better chance of success; Someone shooting for a takedown they've done thousands of
    times, or someone who pokes a mannequin in a dojo a few times every other week?

    I've gone against many wrestlers, and they're extremely good at closing distance, taking you down and controlling you. If I didn't know Bjj, I'd be completely at their mercy.
     
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  20. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Wait, not grappling with a grappler is a terrible idea?

    You suggest that someone who doesn't have grappling experience should grapple with a grappler? That makes a lot of sense.

    Believe it or not it is possible to defend being taken down. And while doing so if you give me a chance to thumb you in the eye with a jab...I will.123
     

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