Aikido hate

[TSDTexan]

I'm just not a fan of how the majority is trained. The full co-operation, voluntarily-do-a-front-flip type of thing. Most techniques can work obviously (although to this day I'm skeptical about wrist throws).
But the way most aikido is trained is dumb.

The voluntary front flip is often a requirement to avoid a broken or dislocated wrist.

Torque knows no mercy.

 

[drop bear]

The voluntary front flip is often a requirement to avoid a broken or dislocated wrist.

Torque knows no mercy.

Puts a big emphasis on that move though. If every time I touch that wrist they just launch then that becomes my high percentage move.

 

[TSDTexan]

Remember Jobo it's not a good thing to pull the wrapper back to uncover the underlying core of ridiculous paranoia behind there... It cuts into the fun of debating these things.

I mean, since I'm teaching at my place, surely, someday, in will walk a 320 lb Russian, expert in sambo and systema and what will poor little old me do?

Though, I do have a plan for that guy.

Note to self, scratch the ex-spetznaz hit man kills MA instructor in a freak training accident. The jig is up.

Also... stop taking notes to self, adressed as note to self.

 

[KangTsai]

The voluntary front flip is often a requirement to avoid a broken or dislocated wrist.

Torque knows no mercy.

Everyone keeps telling me that and to this minute I do not believe it one bit.

 

[drop bear]

Everyone keeps telling me that and to this minute I do not believe it one bit.

It depends. If you were to give a guy your arm let him get it to a point of toque then tried to resist. You could easily have a bad day. Especially if he is the sort of scumbag who likes to jerk on a submission.

And anyone who does submissions has those moments where someone will do something knarley and you have to let go of the submission or hurt people.

But you can work realistically with those locks without needing the acrobatics.

 

[Jenna]

But you can work realistically with those locks without needing the acrobatics.

Not so.. thing is.. when you have trained it for your self for long enough you appreciate that this ukemi is the most efficient and often expedient means of continuing your defence as Aikidoka.. the idea is not like all these people erroneously misinterpret as unnecessary flamboyance -though plainly that happen on demonstration video which is all about show.. done in many martial arts to get feet on mats.. people alas cannot discern what is for demo and want to come online and be all abhorred haha-

Is ok for people here to maintain initially a lack of understanding until just like Biggie say: if you dont know now you know.. what happen ideally is that you untorque your self into a standing position.. there IS not other faster and more efficient means within Aikido to do this than whole body rotation.. from these everyone including dilettante Aikidoka may take note.. is not extraneous or for show.. unfortunately is poorly taught and assimilated incorrectly.. or with rolling, is not simply to clean the mats of dust with your gi.. is to roll back to a seiza or standing position .. understand there is a point in efficiency in airborne ukemi which is not revealed by watching.. only doing make you get it.. or maybe getting it is not the point.. maybe is me who have miss the point.. maybe the point is in the thread title haha..

 

[Buka]

The voluntary front flip is often a requirement to avoid a broken or dislocated wrist.

Torque knows no mercy.

"Torque knows no mercy." What a great turn of phrase.

 

[drop bear]

Not so.. thing is.. when you have trained it for your self for long enough you appreciate that this ukemi is the most efficient and often expedient means of continuing your defence as Aikidoka.. the idea is not like all these people erroneously misinterpret as unnecessary flamboyance -though plainly that happen on demonstration video which is all about show.. done in many martial arts to get feet on mats.. people alas cannot discern what is for demo and want to come online and be all abhorred haha-

Is ok for people here to maintain initially a lack of understanding until just like Biggie say: if you dont know now you know.. what happen ideally is that you untorque your self into a standing position.. there IS not other faster and more efficient means within Aikido to do this than whole body rotation.. from these everyone including dilettante Aikidoka may take note.. is not extraneous or for show.. unfortunately is poorly taught and assimilated incorrectly.. or with rolling, is not simply to clean the mats of dust with your gi.. is to roll back to a seiza or standing position .. understand there is a point in efficiency in airborne ukemi which is not revealed by watching.. only doing make you get it.. or maybe getting it is not the point.. maybe is me who have miss the point.. maybe the point is in the thread title haha..

I am pretty sure i have seen reversals in akido to that lock.

Ok. another thing I just thought of. You have done a flying leap in to the deck.

Then what?

This does not look like a fun position to fight on from.

 

[O'Malley]

Reversals are possible if you find an opening in your partner's technique. If you don't find any, it's better to go with the flow.

Here's a video on how to receive an aikido technique (here in the example of ikkyo):

I'm not sure whether the second video you posted is a good representation of aikido, attacking like that guy does seems pointless (even in an aikido educative context).

The goal of that flipping is to get back onto your feet (or knees):

 

[JP3]

Note to self, scratch the ex-spetznaz hit man kills MA instructor in a freak training accident. The jig is up.

Also... stop taking notes to self, adressed as note to self.

Indeed... I knew I felt a disturbance in The Force....

FYI - my solution to the Russian was very simple, very direct, and nearly 100% Effective.

Her name is Natasha and she arrives in a Cherry Red Porshe 959 with a case of Gray Goose vodka.

I'm still working on the 959, you don't find those just lying around... so I'll have to make Natasha and the vodka work. So, reduce effectiveness to around 70%.

 

[TSDTexan]

"Torque knows no mercy." What a great turn of phrase.

One of my occupations is writing.

 

[TSDTexan]

Here is some good Aikido.
How to break wrists 101

 

[drop bear]

Reversals are possible if you find an opening in your partner's technique. If you don't find any, it's better to go with the flow.

Here's a video on how to receive an aikido technique (here in the example of ikkyo):

I'm not sure whether the second video you posted is a good representation of aikido, attacking like that guy does seems pointless (even in an aikido educative context).

The goal of that flipping is to get back onto your feet (or knees):

And you test that? So the guy falling is looking for opportunities to counter. The guy throwing is trying to capitalise.

 

[drop bear]

Here is some good Aikido.
How to break wrists 101

That is the same Aikido with more swearing.

Which seems like they are throwing another layer of fluff in front of the viewer.

 

[O'Malley]

And you test that? So the guy falling is looking for opportunities to counter. The guy throwing is trying to capitalise.

Yes, it can be tested. It is called randori, even though not all aikido schools do it but as some might have said before, it is difficult to find two identical aikido schools.

 

[JP3]

"Torque knows no mercy." What a great turn of phrase.

For the record, I caught what you did there. Nice.

Drop, sometimes we actually do test that stuff. Getting thrown, counter while inside the other guy's throw. If you've accepted the throw, then you have all that energy which has to go somewhere, after all. If you've got connection to the other guy, sometimes you can do neat-O stuff with it. One example which was done to me once, which I took a look at for a while and it's nice and works nearly every time if the person has the standard posture problem. Think kotegaeshi, standard throw most people have in their system. As long as it is the throw, not the postural destruction one that goes into the body and down.

As uke is being thrown, right as impact with the ground is imminent, the arm which was used to throw uke contracts, bringing itself back to chestm some. Most people when doing kotegaeshi at speed end up with a small posture break at waist, bending forwards and also sometimes add to that the fact that their eyes track uke to the ground. Both things pitch them slightly forward, and if timed right, you end up throwing them right down the same line they just threw you. Easily blockable, just fix your feet and back, but it is amazing how many people have this issue which can be taken advantage of. If desired, at the very least you change the person who threw you from a standing to a kneeling or prone one.

 

[TSDTexan]

Everyone keeps telling me that and to this minute I do not believe it one bit.

Your belief isn't required.

It is what it is, whether you believe it or not.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like.

But...
We can scientifically test this.

Forum rules/ TOS prevent call outs, but I know a Marine, who... if you sign an informed consent and contract of indemnification, he will gladly break your wrist... at no cost to you.

Over suppination or over protenation... your choice.

And...

He will do it for free.

Plus his school is within walking distance of a major hospital.

And I am willing to bet He can, if you agree to let him try...
100.00 USD.

 

[drop bear]

Your belief isn't required.

It is what it is, whether you believe it or not.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like.

But...
We can scientifically test this.

Forum rules/ TOS prevent call outs, but I know a Marine, who... if you sign an informed consent and contract of indemnification, he will gladly break your wrist... at no cost to you.

Over suppination or over protenation... your choice.

And...

He will do it for free.

Plus his school is within walking distance of a major hospital.

And I am willing to bet He can, if you agree to let him try...
100.00 USD.

What belt is he in BJJ?

 

[Hanzou]

Your belief isn't required.

It is what it is, whether you believe it or not.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like.

But...
We can scientifically test this.

Forum rules/ TOS prevent call outs, but I know a Marine, who... if you sign an informed consent and contract of indemnification, he will gladly break your wrist... at no cost to you.

Over suppination or over protenation... your choice.

And...

He will do it for free.

Plus his school is within walking distance of a major hospital.

And I am willing to bet He can, if you agree to let him try...
100.00 USD.

I don't think anyone doubts that Aikido techniques can break wrists if properly applied. My issue is the set ups for that application, which are highly stylized and in some cases pretty unrealistic.

I'm convinced that the main issues with Aikido are two-fold:

1. Aikido was originally an art for advanced/senior martial artists. In other words if you're a black belt in Judo/Bjj Aikido's weaknesses aren't a problem.

2. Ueshiba was kind of looney towards the end of his life, and that negatively impacted the art's development.

 

[drop bear]

I don't think anyone doubts that Aikido techniques can break wrists if properly applied. My issue is the set ups for that application, which are highly stylized and in some cases pretty unrealistic.

I'm convinced that the main issues with Aikido are two-fold:

1. Aikido was originally an art for advanced/senior martial artists. In other words if you're a black belt in Judo/Bjj Aikido's weaknesses aren't a problem.

2. Ueshiba was kind of looney towards the end of his life, and that negatively impacted the art's development.

Set up.

I have mentioned this before but. I have done a lot of wrist locks on guys but I set them up with good clinch work and hand fighting.

The catching punches out of thin air I dont think works very well. And is the main entry for these bloody things.

People are just hitting these locks backwards. Again for me it is simp,e. If I attack you your arm isnt going anywhere near as fast as if you are attacking me.