A punch should be followed by a pull

[donald1]

Who's punching? Are you punching, are you pulling them into your punch? Are they punching and you catching the punch to pull them off balance?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Who's punching? Are you punching, are you pulling them into your punch? Are they punching and you catching the punch to pull them off balance?

Case 1 (a punch can be followed by a pull):

- You punch.
- Your opponent blocks your punch.
- You pull his blocking arm into you, and ...

Case 2 (a block can be followed by a pull):

- Your opponent punches.
- You block his punch.
- You then pull his punching arm into you, and ...

In this thread, we are talking about case 1.​

 

[skribs]

- You punch.
- Your opponent blocks your punch.
- You pull his blocking arm into you, and punch him with another hand.

I didn't get this at all from your original post. I thought you were talking about stuff like the first technique in this video:

He uses the punching motion to set up the throw.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I didn't get this at all from your original post. I thought you were talking about stuff like the first technique in this video:

He uses the punching motion to set up the throw.

Another example that a punch is changed into a pull.

 

[skribs]

Another example that a punch is changed into a pull.

How does that work at speed? My experience with blocks is that a block done on a full-speed punch will deflect the arm and make it more difficult to immediately grab the blocking arm.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you do something better than the stereotype then it would be to your advantage to separate yourself from that stereotype.

It happens with MMA a lot. As there are a lot of stereotypes surrounding it. All you need to do is say show a video or put up a link and show that you are different.

I don't really see why it's to my advantage to expend effort toward that end. The only people who really need to understand what I do are folks I'm training with, or my students. They get to see it in person.

And it would take some effort. I don't have folks at my level in my classes (currently just beginners), so there's not much I can show there.

 

[skribs]

I don't really see why it's to my advantage to expend effort toward that end. The only people who really need to understand what I do are folks I'm training with, or my students. They get to see it in person.

And it would take some effort. I don't have folks at my level in my classes (currently just beginners), so there's not much I can show there.

It takes time, too. We teach a lot of this stuff from the start, but the amount of class time devoted to kicking is significantly higher than the others. Our average green belt does fit the stereotype of being primarily good at kicks. However, our "average" 3rd degree black belt is good at a lot more than just kicks.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How does that work at speed? My experience with blocks is that a block done on a full-speed punch will deflect the arm and make it more difficult to immediately grab the blocking arm.

When you punch at your opponent's face, you can sense whether your opponent has blocking intention or not. You can also sense whether his blocking arm can intersect your punching arm or not. You then adjust your punching speed to suit for your need.

When your opponent uses hard block on your punch, you can

- change your punch into a soft pull, or
- borrow his blocking force, rotate your arm, and pull his arm from the other side.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I don't really see why it's to my advantage to expend effort toward that end. The only people who really need to understand what I do are folks I'm training with, or my students. They get to see it in person.

And it would take some effort. I don't have folks at my level in my classes (currently just beginners), so there's not much I can show there.

Not that you'd have any reason to do it, but could you get @AngryHobbit showing whatever it is that dropbear is convinced you need to show?

And there is one other group that needs to understand what you do: prospective students/training partners.

 

[wab25]

Another example that a punch is changed into a pull.

Thats a good example of what others have been saying. In order to make the grab, you have to compromise the punch. That first punch was never intended to be a punch. It had no power, no structure behind it. If it had hit him, no damage done. But, it would not have hit him, there was too much distance. The only reason for that punch was to get the other guy to block it. That is a great tactic and works well. But, that punch was never a real punch to begin with. If it had been a real punch, it would have been harder to make the grab after.

Again, I am not saying that that is a bad thing, or wouldn't work as shown. I am saying that the punch that turns into the grab, was always a grab to begin with, and not a punch. The punch was compromised, as you wanted to grab.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not that you'd have any reason to do it, but could you get @AngryHobbit showing whatever it is that dropbear is convinced you need to show?

And there is one other group that needs to understand what you do: prospective students/training partners.

Some of it, I could. Her back doesn't let her do as much as she used to - no falls, and grappling is usually out.

As for prospective students, yeah, I was kind of including them with students (they can come and see what students see). I've been trying to think of a way to get some videos together for the website, but haven't a good answer at present. I've tried to lure some BB from the old school to come visit, but it hasn't happened yet. Apparently, they have lives.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

you have to compromise the punch.

Some punch such as

- cross, hook, uppercut, hammer fist you may throw 100% all the time.
- jab, back fist you may only throw 50% most of the time.

 

[skribs]

Some punch such as

- cross, hook, uppercut, hammer fist you may throw 100% all the time.
- jab, back fist you may only throw 50% most of the time.

Lately I've been throwing my kicks with negative power. I set up for the kick an actively pull my weight back on the moment of impact so I don't hurt the person holding the pads.

This is because my last two partners have been a 13 year old kid, and my "29" year old mother, both who are still waiting on growth spurts.

 

[drop bear]

Depends if you trust your striking. If you do, no pull need. If you don't, pull in order to grapple.

Tracking back to see what this one is about.

Sort of.

Striking is grappling some times. So very simply if I grabbed you by the back of the head and fed you uppercuts I would be using striking and grappling.

It is not really the domain of either. Same with the arm pull.

I don't really see why it's to my advantage to expend effort toward that end. The only people who really need to understand what I do are folks I'm training with, or my students. They get to see it in person.

And it would take some effort. I don't have folks at my level in my classes (currently just beginners), so there's not much I can show there.

Not anymore. I think with the amazing amount of information that we can receive. People are a lot more discerning of what they get.

The old method of huff and puff. "You come to my gym and I keel you!" Has died in the age of people coming to guys gyms and giving the guy a good slap. And putting it on video.

And one video is worth a hundred claims of "my gym is different. And I know the last guy who said that and got publicly slapped. But mine is really different"

 

[skribs]

Not anymore. I think with the amazing amount of information that we can receive. People are a lot more discerning of what they get.

The old method of huff and puff. "You come to my gym and I keel you!" Has died in the age of people coming to guys gyms and giving the guy a good slap. And putting it on video.

And one video is worth a hundred claims of "my gym is different. And I know the last guy who said that and got publicly slapped. But mine is really different"

What movie did you see this in?

Striking is grappling some times. So very simply if I grabbed you by the back of the head and fed you uppercuts I would be using striking and grappling.

It is not really the domain of either. Same with the arm pull.

I completely agree with this. And therein lies the problem with this post - I have no idea how to rate it, because I strongly agree with half of it and strongly disagree with the other half!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not anymore. I think with the amazing amount of information that we can receive. People are a lot more discerning of what they get.

The old method of huff and puff. "You come to my gym and I keel you!" Has died in the age of people coming to guys gyms and giving the guy a good slap. And putting it on video.

And one video is worth a hundred claims of "my gym is different. And I know the last guy who said that and got publicly slapped. But mine is really different"

Not sure what you're even on about in this. I make no claims of "I'm different" in marketing. And no claims of destroying someone if they show up. If someone wants to see what the training is like, they stop by the school and watch. Videos would be helpful, but I don't have any at the moment (except for some really rudimentary stuff about some exercises and such), so folks have to stop by. Which is probably better, anyway.

 

[drop bear]

What movie did you see this in?



I completely agree with this. And therein lies the problem with this post - I have no idea how to rate it, because I strongly agree with half of it and strongly disagree with the other half!

You would download some sort of gif.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Some of it, I could. Her back doesn't let her do as much as she used to - no falls, and grappling is usually out.

As for prospective students, yeah, I was kind of including them with students (they can come and see what students see). I've been trying to think of a way to get some videos together for the website, but haven't a good answer at present. I've tried to lure some BB from the old school to come visit, but it hasn't happened yet. Apparently, they have lives.

Next time you have a chance to visit Lexington, we can grab someone to hold a camera while you demonstrate on me. I make a reasonably decent uke.

 

[drop bear]

Not sure what you're even on about in this. I make no claims of "I'm different" in marketing. And no claims of destroying someone if they show up. If someone wants to see what the training is like, they stop by the school and watch. Videos would be helpful, but I don't have any at the moment (except for some really rudimentary stuff about some exercises and such), so folks have to stop by. Which is probably better, anyway.

Then don't be upset when you get what you get.

If you put in the work to make your position clear. Then people will get a clear indication of what you are expressing.

If you don't then people will assume what they assume.

So you could fix it but you choose not to. That's fine. Don't fix the problem. I am not demanding you change.

But that isn't my cross to bear. I can't go to your gym and see for myself. I can't see video. I don't have context. So I will paint a picture with the tools I have.

If I have the wrong impression all the butt hurt in the world doesn't change it. Better information does.

 

[AngryHobbit]

Not that you'd have any reason to do it, but could you get @AngryHobbit showing whatever it is that dropbear is convinced you need to show?

And there is one other group that needs to understand what you do: prospective students/training partners.

I am not an adequate demo partner. First of all, I am not a standard size person. So, any technique performed by me or performed on me is going to be distorted because it would require a serious adjustment for my size. @gpseymour would not spar with me the same way he would spar with an average person. Second, I wouldn't call myself a good striking partner - I am a better gravity redirector than striker. I'm a decent joint locker. I do practice strikes but I do so reluctantly, which doesn't make me a good example for strikes demos.