Are modern arts, no longer martial

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Gweilo, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. Gweilo

    Gweilo Brown Belt

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    I found this, whilst browsing the net, interesting read, not sure I completely agree with this guy, but some of his points have merit, see what you think, are Modern arts no longer martial.


    To Kill a Martial Art
     
  2. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    I disagree with most of what is in the article.
     
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  3. Sounds like another mished mashed art, claiming they are the best around.
     
  4. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    In my view he's writing from a very limited perspective.
     
  5. That seems to be the case, with a lot of Martial art blogs.
     
  6. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Some yes, some no, all an add for Bukan
     
  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Pretty much anyone who starts with the premise of "true" something will be defining it according to their purpose (a variation of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy nearly always occurs if discussion ensues). As others have pointed out, this is from their narrow perspective, with a propaganda purpose. In the opening paragraph, the author makes it clear that anything including competition isn't "real" martial arts to them - an argument I've never seen good backing for (though it's one I once bought into, until I met enough competitors).
     
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  8. Rat

    Rat Black Belt

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    Why is it Japanese centric anyway? By that i mean he cites budo and the japanese method.
     
  9. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Bukan is in Japan
     
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  10. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    You could make a lot of those claims going back further. In my earnest effort to try and find the goal of learning the Taekwondo Poomsae, one thing that I read is the Karate Kata were watered down from their original martial intent to something more appropriate to teach to a schoolchild. For example, a motion where you cross your arms and then pull your arms to either side could be breaking someone's neck...or it could be a knife-hand block.

    If you define a martial art only as what you need to survive, then anything done to make a martial art more appropriate for children's education, or for competition, is watering it down. This is true, but also a narrow view of martial arts. It's the same narrow view as someone who says that only sport arts are effective, because you can't win in a non-sport art. It's the same narrow view as I had when I started teaching under my Master's guidance, and I thought everything my Master wanted me to do was wrong because it's not the way I wanted to teach.

    Now, as to this author - he suffers from two problems. He doesn't seem to know a lot of what he's talking about, and he can't write. He is talking about Krav Maga, but the bulk of his article talks about Japan. His introduction didn't really draw me in or tell me what kind of point he was going to make. When he started talking about animals and how mammals were the biggest and strongest, I was confused, because there were lots of animals bigger than mammals in the past (until I realized that he was talking about when humans first started learning martial arts). It's just a big jumble that he wrote to sell his martial arts school.

    It reminds me of watching a video of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, where he says it's the best martial art because it's about NOT simply trading punches. Which ignores arts like wrestling and Judo, which are also not about trading punches; and ignores lots of Asian martial arts that mix grappling with punching and try to make it so you can strike your opponent without them striking you. More arts are about not trading punches than are about trading punches, but according to this advertisement, it's only GJJ.
     
  11. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I tried to read it. I couldn’t sacrifice the minutes it would take. I would resent him for the rest of the day for stealing that time from me. My time sitting on the porcelain throne is much more valuable looking at other stuff.

    From the little I did read, he has that fatal combination of stupidity and ignorance, coupled with the self-assurance that he is right about everything.

    Why is it that the stupid people are always so convinced they have the truth, when the intelligent people who really do know what they are talking about, so often harbor self-doubt? I dunno. The world is as it is.
     
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  12. Christopher Adamchek

    Christopher Adamchek Blue Belt

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    Terms can always get a bit mushy
    what most people do IS martial arts - martial concepts and techniques blended with an interdevelopment, less contact, and cultural appricaition
    what the article is talking about i would call combatives or raw combatives (depending on organization) that hold no artistic aspect
    X style can have be both as well as sport
    Again depends on what aspect and how to do the martial portion
     
  13. Mitlov

    Mitlov Blue Belt

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    Sounds like another person who tries to find value in trying to put down others instead of just confidence and satisfaction in what he does.

    I do find it funny when people who train in arts half as old as Queensbury-rules boxing sneer about how things used to be and how modern life is screwing it all up. In reality, combat sports have been part of martial arts for thousands of years, back to the original Olympics at least.

    Don't like competition? Great. More power to you. We don't all have to train the same way. To each their own. But for people like this blogger who need to belittle others to find value in what they do, I have no patience.
     
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  14. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Expression, sport, combat, wellness, and demonstration are the 5 things you can build martial arts on. Many arts fit multiples of these. It seems he would like to eschew everything but "combat".
     
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  15. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Has that battle worn, combat Martial look to him. Perhaps should be addressed as Master Tey.

    MarkTey.jpeg

    Yeah, I'm a asshat. And don't care.
     
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  16. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    If you looked at me, 5'6" on a good day and a stomach that hides my abs but not my love of food, then you wouldn't assume I know much about martial arts either.
     
  17. Mitlov

    Mitlov Blue Belt

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    Eddie Futch doesn't look scary either. Doesn't mean he doesn't know how to train boxers.

    There are plenty if good reasons to criticize this author. Being skinny and baby-faced isn't a compelling one.
     
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  18. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    You guys are correct of course.

    But it still makes me giggle.
     
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  19. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    This post actually made me try reading it. I gave up reading after the first paragraph and tried skimming it. Then I gave up skimming it as well.
     
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  20. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ah-yup
     

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