A change for me

[Bujingodai]

About Falcaro Sensei, well yes he has a relationship with the Mikeba. I have never met nor trained with them. Dave has more tuning with Aikijutsu than anything else. No he is not Bujinkan trained at all. Far from it. However like I said come traini with him and see for yourself prior to a complete judgement.

I also would not put Jackson in the same grouping as those others. Not at all.

I don't care to argue all that much about it. I am not looking to build a resume, I just liked to train with different people. I rejoined the Kan to continue it with a good path. However I guess I will always be substandard to you Don, not to concerned with that.
I won't insult you, so please have enough respect to agree to disagree. I think we both understand the positions we are taking here. But I don't think we will solve anything here.

 

[arnisador]

It sounds like there are conflicting opinions about Mikeba-ryu then? I haven't heard of Soke Ellerbe. I thought Don Angier was the only true American Soke, but my information may be out-of-date.

 

[Don Roley]

I also would not put Jackson in the same grouping as those others. Not at all.

And of course, you would not have put your old teacher in with the frauds until the day he tossed you out for asking questions about his past training. Jackson sent out a certificate he claimed he got from his teacher. It was bad. Among other things, it claimed to have been issued by the "Heavenly Dog Association." And from what I see in terms of pictures and such, Jackson might be able to impress low level types, but he has some big holes in his technique that can easily be taken advantage of.

It sounds like there are conflicting opinions about Mikeba-ryu then?

Not really opinion. You go to any soke in Japan and they will be willing and able to prove they had a teacher who made them a soke. They also can show proof that someone in Japan knows about them. Mikeba ryu is not listed in any Japanese source, nor can Ellerbie seem to prove that he had a real teacher.

 

[Bujingodai]

OK Don.

 

[Shogun]

as far as I know, I don't think Daito ryu was even around in 1671!!!

From what I know, it was, but was not called Daito ryu until later (1800's) I think The name Daito comes from the arts founder, Shinra Saburo Minamoto no Yoshimitsu, who was the head of the Daito mansion. The art synthesized around 1120, but wasn't an "official" style until much later. Not to mention, the art was a family lineage secret, that wasn't taught until the Takeda household took over it. so thats pretty much true.

 

[Don Roley]

From what I know, it was, but was not called Daito ryu until later (1800's) I think The name Daito comes from the arts founder, Shinra Saburo Minamoto no Yoshimitsu, who was the head of the Daito mansion. The art synthesized around 1120, but wasn't an "official" style until much later. Not to mention, the art was a family lineage secret, that wasn't taught until the Takeda household took over it. so thats pretty much true.

Sources?

I think the point Kizaru was trying to make is that the Mikeba stuff looks a lot like a teacher who took some videos of the Daito ryu and some stuff from Bujinkan videos and were able to fool those that did not know better that they were a Japanese style.

I am sure that they can fool a lot of low level martial artists, but not those that know what they are talking about. But there is no shortage of inexperienced fools ready to believe that Mikeba ryu, Sato ryu, Ashida Kim are worthy of being treated as ninjutsu styles.

 

[Bujingodai]

You have seen vids of the Mikeba?
I have a pretty lengthy portion from a gathering some years ago. Looks nothing like Bujinkan at all to me. It does look more Aikijutsu.

And you are right in the no shortage of fools Don.

 

[Kizaru]

Sources?

I think the point Kizaru was trying to make is that the Mikeba stuff looks a lot like a teacher who took some videos of the Daito ryu and some stuff from Bujinkan videos and were able to fool those that did not know better that they were a Japanese style.

</p>Here's a website that explains the history of Daito ryu in English and Japanese:http://www.muden.jp/According to that, "In 1898, Sokaku Takeda received permission to teach the art openly from the chief steward of the clan, Tanomo Saigo (1830 - 1905) with the words: "the time of the sword is over.""According to my friends here in Japan who practice Daito ryu, this is when Daito ryu became Daito ryu. This is because during his musha shugyo, Takeda Sokaku added quite a bit to what he previously learned, giving birth to Daito ryu.In the Mikeba ryu "history", it's stated that Mikeba ryu was founded in the 1600's and borrowed from Daito ryu. If Daito ryu wasn't in existance then how did they borrow from it? Looking at the video clips available on David Falcaro's page, it clearly looks like he's showcasing some Daito ryu techniques...so basicly it just looks like a really shoddy scam job to me.Gassho.

 

[Bujingodai]

And Falcaro is scamming how? His art is Daito, he was not traned by Mikeba for that.

 

[Don Roley]

And Falcaro is scamming how? His art is Daito, he was not traned by Mikeba for that.

Kizaru posted the following official biography of Falcaro in a recent post.

http://www.bumon.com/aboutme.html

Where does it say that he has learned or teaches Daito ryu?

The closest I can find is a comment about Mikeba ryu that claims to be born out of Daito ryu- which as Kizaru points out did not even use that name until centuries after the Mikeba ryu claims to have learned it and lost contact with it. Another is a comment about Hokushin Ryu Aikibujutsu, which supposably was created by someone who learned Daito ryu but does not mention teaching Daito ryu. I do not think this guy ever existed and is a fiction by Falcaro. In any case, where is the comment about him learning Daito ryu? Hatusmi learned boxing- I can't say that I learned boxing even though I trained with him because he does not teach it and there is no mention on Falcaro learning Daito ryu from a teacher.

Again, if Falcaro is teaching Daito ryu, where is the information on him learning that art on the page he wrote about his own training?

 

[Cryozombie]

-Mod Note-

Fraud busting is not allowed in this forum. If you wish to discuss this at length I suggest you move it to the Great Debate Forum.

-Technopunk
-MT Super Mod

 

[Bujingodai]

Techno, I have no care to carry this on any further.