6 year old first dan??? whiskey tango foxtrot!

[CB Jones]

Funny story:

Years ago, the USKA Director was an 8th or 9th dan blackbelt. Some members of the organization convinced him that as the director he should wear his red and white belt (before that he only wore just his black belt) at the tournaments.

At a tournament, he was called over to settle a disagreement in the rules...as he was leaving the ring he overheard a spectator ask another spectator "why they call this dude over here....he isnt even a black belt."

That was the last time he wore the red and white belt.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

according to my research, Dr. J borrowed the black belt from the blackbelt/black dash/ribbon award given for armoured swimming combatives of jujitsu.

He also, later introduced a brown belt just prior to black in his belt system....

Gichin Funakoshi took that three belt system and asked his student body to accept the green belt between white and black. I dont think it was implemented during his lifetime. there is some difference of opinion about that specific thing.

Now how does go fit into the kyu/dan rankings? Did they steal it from MA to did MA steal it from go?

For the record, go rankings mean the same thing across the board, and in different countries. Just like my former elo 1500 for chess in the us meant the same thing in new york as it did in florida or Germany.

 

[skribs]

Now how does go fit into the kyu/dan rankings? Did they steal it from MA to did MA steal it from go?

For the record, go rankings mean the same thing across the board, and in different countries. Just like my former elo 1500 for chess in the us meant the same thing in new york as it did in florida or Germany.

I think there's a few issues here. The first is that objective measures (i.e. you must have X knowledge to pass your rank test) is different than subjective measures (i.e. you need to be in the top 0.01% of a competition to be a Grand Master).

The second is that your ranking is based on the competition. I used to play World of Warcraft, and there were times of day when arenas were populated by a bunch of people who had no clue what they were doing, and others where the other players were all no-life try-hards (like myself) who would just destroy you. So if you play at one time of day, you may expect to get to a rating of 1100, but at a different time of day a rating of 1600.

 

[Bruce7]

My teacher started MA at age 10 and became a black belt at 17, 7 years of study.
At age 41, 31 years of study became an International Master Instructor by the World Taekwondo Federation in 1972.
IMO So a 6 year old year old with 2 years of questionable study has black belt makes no sense

 

[TSDTexan]

Now how does go fit into the kyu/dan rankings? Did they steal it from MA to did MA steal it from go?

Kano started the modern rank system when he awarded shodan to two of his senior students (Shiro Saigo and Tsunejiro Tomita) in 1883. Even then, there was no external differentiation between yudansha (black belt ranks) and mudansha (those who hadn't yet attained black belt ranking).

Kano apparently began the custom of having his yudansha wear black obi (belts) in 1886.

there is. debate whether it was Go or Shogi that he borrowed the dan system from.

 

[TSDTexan]

according to my research, Dr. J borrowed the black belt from the blackbelt/black dash/ribbon award given for armoured swimming combatives of jujitsu.
think samurai water polo

He also, later introduced a brown belt just prior to black in his belt system....

Gichin Funakoshi took that three belt system and asked his student body to accept the green belt between white and black. I dont think it was implemented during his lifetime. there is some difference of opinion about that specific thing.

1st error:
dash should have been sash.

2nd error:

between white and black.... is an error. It should have read between white and brown.
thus the order would have been white, green, brown, black.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think there's a few issues here. The first is that objective measures (i.e. you must have X knowledge to pass your rank test) is different than subjective measures (i.e. you need to be in the top 0.01% of a competition to be a Grand Master).

The second is that your ranking is based on the competition. I used to play World of Warcraft, and there were times of day when arenas were populated by a bunch of people who had no clue what they were doing, and others where the other players were all no-life try-hards (like myself) who would just destroy you. So if you play at one time of day, you may expect to get to a rating of 1100, but at a different time of day a rating of 1600.

But you can have a subjective measure combined with an objective measure (you must know XY and Z. After that, you must compete so well in competition, or prove capability in a subjective manner). ELO and competitive rankings can take care of that part of it.

When it came to chess I never experienced that. Going to competitions, everyone there was serious and the rankings were legitimate. I don't know how that holds for online chess sites though, so it may be an online issue where people are playing/competing 24/7. I do know that from my experience, going to actual competitions/tournaments can keep rankings relatively steady. And it's a better measure than not measuring it at all.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

But you can have a subjective measure combined with an objective measure (you must know XY and Z. After that, you must compete so well in competition, or prove capability in a subjective manner). ELO and competitive rankings can take care of that part of it.

When it came to chess I never experienced that. Going to competitions, everyone there was serious and the rankings were legitimate. I don't know how that holds for online chess sites though, so it may be an online issue where people are playing/competing 24/7. I do know that from my experience, going to actual competitions/tournaments can keep rankings relatively steady. And it's a better measure than not measuring it at all.

This is all assuming you feel that rankings should mean something about actual ability in your art. If not, then it doesn't matter.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Kano started the modern rank system when he awarded shodan to two of his senior students (Shiro Saigo and Tsunejiro Tomita) in 1883. Even then, there was no external differentiation between yudansha (black belt ranks) and mudansha (those who hadn't yet attained black belt ranking).

Kano apparently began the custom of having his yudansha wear black obi (belts) in 1886.

there is. debate whether it was Go or Shogi that he borrowed the dan system from.

I didn't even realize that shogi had a dan system as well. Cool to know

 

[skribs]

But you can have a subjective measure combined with an objective measure (you must know XY and Z. After that, you must compete so well in competition, or prove capability in a subjective manner). ELO and competitive rankings can take care of that part of it.

When it came to chess I never experienced that. Going to competitions, everyone there was serious and the rankings were legitimate. I don't know how that holds for online chess sites though, so it may be an online issue where people are playing/competing 24/7. I do know that from my experience, going to actual competitions/tournaments can keep rankings relatively steady. And it's a better measure than not measuring it at all.

What I meant by my first point is that most dan ranks are not based on competition, but on meeting requirements in course material.

As to my second point - different people are competing in Europe, than America, than China. So if on a scale of 1-10, the average American competitor is a 6, European competitor is a 4, and Chinese competitor is an 8, that will skew the ELO rankings.

 

[AndreaLola]

I hope the link works.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[JR 137]

The version of Kano’s black belts I’ve read:

Kano brought his students to train at another school. That school was run by one of Kano’s senior most students. During the course of training, the dojo owner asked Kano which were his top students so they can partner up/work with his top students.

Kano improvised and gave those students a black strip of fabric to wear as a belt over their regular belt to identify them easier in the sea of students. Kinda like giving a soccer goalie or a football quarterback a different colored jersey to easily identify them.

Very soon afterwards, he came up with the mudansha (no rank)/yudansha (ranked) system. I’m not sure if those students he gave those improvised black belts to were the first official black belts, or if he officially gave dan rank to the students mentioned elsewhere here first, then gave them dan ranking afterwards. I’d imagine he’d give his senior-most guys who were teaching/coaching official dan ranking first.

I think he had 3 ranks after the first official black belts - white, brown, and black.

The gentleman mentioned above who was teaching in Paris introduced the ranks between white and brown, and Kano liked it so he implemented it across all of Judo.

I can’t remember where I read that story exactly. It was a well respected Judo source though.

 

[TSDTexan]

I hope the link works.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

now... this one has the hallmarks of Shotokan/JKA dan level kata. If the rest of the kyu forms and the forms for shodan were this good with Kime, and attention to timing, and precision in technique.... even i would be forced to grant a shodan to this person.

you dont get that good without logging the many many hours that it takes. I suspect thos girls parents are high dan who make the kid practice 3 to 4 hours a day.

my my my.... is this the next Rika Usami????

 

[CB Jones]

I hope the link works.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

But can she take a punch...

 

[TSDTexan]

But you can have a subjective measure combined with an objective measure (you must know XY and Z. After that, you must compete so well in competition, or prove capability in a subjective manner). ELO and competitive rankings can take care of that part of it.

When it came to chess I never experienced that. Going to competitions, everyone there was serious and the rankings were legitimate. I don't know how that holds for online chess sites though, so it may be an online issue where people are playing/competing 24/7. I do know that from my experience, going to actual competitions/tournaments can keep rankings relatively steady. And it's a better measure than not measuring it at all.

What is remarkable is Dr. Kano had the early Kodokan rules allowing for the earning of dan by performing 3 techniques that scored Ippon in a single tournament.

This was how the bulk of the early Kodokan earned dan. testing for dan was uncommon

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I hope the link works.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Her forms are definitely better than mine.

 

[JR 137]

What is remarkable is Dr. Kano had the early Kodokan rules allowing for the earning of dan by performing 3 techniques that scored Ippon in a single tournament.

This was how the bulk of the early Kodokan earned dan. testing for dan was uncommon

I don’t know what Kano’s rules for this were. I know today they’re pretty stringent. Something like beating several people higher ranked than you in a tournament in specific competitions. Stuff like Pan-Am games, Olympic qualifiers, etc., ie not local $hit show tournaments held to promote people who don’t deserve it.

And I think you can go to the Kodokan and test in a similar manner.

The rules for it are somewhere. I’ll look but can’t promise anything.

 

[dvcochran]

Apparently not, since the school in the OP is part of that MA community.

Based on Danny’s post, Kano and I would disagree greatly on what BB means, if we each insisted on using the definition we started our curriculum with. Am I too strict, or was Kano too lenient? Neither, I think.

Point taken, but do you go around aligning yourself with pariah? I seriously doubt it. If you have to put a dress on it then I would consider the article a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[Steve]

Her forms are definitely better than mine.

Yeah. She’s on par with some of the xma kids I’ve seen.

This guy is also pretty good.

 

[dvcochran]

I am picturing the triplets from Brave.
degrees are really only used to evaluate qualifications, generally to get you a job. Once you have the job, the degree itself is just a ceremonial indicator and the real value of the degree is in your application of what you learned. So, to be clear, there are two finctions of a degree: the reputation of the institution, and your ability to apply skills you learned (I.e., the quality of the education)

Don't we already have this in MA? Do we need more, and would that even be possible?

I agree they are not synonymous. Holding a degree in X does not mean you know or can do X. That is a constant in the engineering fields I am involved in anyway. But there is a considerable amount of groundwork and fundamentals learned at college. The big difference is for many jobs a person will not even be considered without a degree. Unless they have 10-15 years experience in a specific field.
The value of higher education has become white washed since society and the colleges sold most people on the lie that a high school graduate must go to college to ever get ahead. Sadly, most kids today end up with a huge debt and little to show for it. The kids who figured it out while still in high school and were truly ready for college still get a great deal of value from college. Like it or not, it is a prerequisite for most mid to upper level jobs. Those who succeed with out a degree either worked their way up from the bottom, had help along the way, or are simply exceptional. That said, I am a huge fan of trade and vocational school learning. We use a balance of both. Our engineers are all degreed. Our techs are junior college or trade school graduates. College or trade school completion shows a level of commitment I look for in people.
The 2nd best programmer I have ever seen was self taught with a 2 year degree. But he is definitely in the exception category.
So that I understand, how do we already have this in MA?