2001 Wisconsin Open. What the heck?!!

[deadhand31]

ok, so I went to watch the 2001 Wisconsin Karate Open. I just want to know what the heck is up. I saw terrible creative forms. Sure, they were fast-paced, skilled, and they did take a degree of skill, but they completely went against what a form is supposed to be. a form is supposed to be a choreographed fight between imaginary opponents, so you come to understand the application of the techniques, but what i saw was showboating! one guy did 8 side kicks in a circle without putting his foot down, as if 8 guys are going to surround him one at a time! and a kid was DANCING during a form set to music. sparring was terrible too. a bop on the head was considered a point! a guy got penalized for hitting TOO HARD! what the heck was that supposed to be? a martial arts tournament, or a dance rehearsal? please, somebody, tell me i'm not out of line here!!!!

 

[bujinclergy]

What part of Wisconsin?
sounds like karate american of Madison.:wah:

bujinclergy

 

[GouRonin]

Actually it depends on how you look at it.

Not all kata/forms are "choreographed imagined fights against opponents." In some arts they are. In other arts they are there just to show motion.

It sounds like you went and saw a "Sport Karate" tournament. That is what sport karate is. If you don't like it, don't enter. That is what those people want to do. Obviously it does not fit your concept of what a tournament should be. (Mine either really but hey, it's their soap, their dick, they can wash it)

My first tournament was a god awful scare. I came from boxing. I thought I was suddenly surrounded by dancing fairies. I learned that it wasn't for me. Don't be discouraged.
:asian:

 

[deadhand31]

often times, we find americans changing things to suit them. i wish this was not the case in martial arts. i've seen way too many people act as showboats, only to get their butts kicked in a real fight. a good example is ***************. sure, they have their speedy forms, but they get their butts kicked when it comes time to fight. and the sixth dan instructor openly mocked traditional weapons forms. maybe he needs to learn that a big whirly-twirly move with a bo staff can easily be knocked out of order by a single solid parry. or maybe people like him enjoy teaching the bastardized versions of martial arts.



<mod note : example identifier removed on request of poster.>

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by deadhand31
often times, we find americans changing things to suit them. i wish this was not the case in martial arts.

In fairness, the Chinese gave us WuShu (martial arts gymnastics) and Tai Chi for health (as opposed to, and in addition to, combat Tai Chi); the Koreans gave us Tae Kwon Do (sport); and the Japanese gave us Judo, Kendo, and other martial sports. All these are modified from their martial purposes--in fact even arts like Iaido and Jodo are now practiced in modified forms for betterment rather than self-defense. Virtually every Iai kata seen in demonstration is from Iaido-for-character-development, not Iaido-for-dueling.

While I agree that some of the modern demonstration kata take this to an extreme, and I frankly don't like them either, one can't blame it all on the Americans.

 

[girlychuks]

I was there! I was there! (NOT competing)



I went to watch and kept my mouth shut.
As a beginner, I will not say anything negative.
I *will* say that I, um,
1)prefer my traditional style I am learning (kempo)
2)Prefer swift, effective strikes to showboating
3) Like fighting rather than point sparring
Okay. i will say ONE negative thing. I think sparly nunchukus are GAY AS ALL HELL. Even my drag queen brother thinks they are tasteless.

I was there and saw *no* traditional forms entries save for the sensie who did the Bo staff forms. The forms you saw there were made up.

I don't think this is a case of Americans screwing up martial arts. Umm... this is um, sport karate.

I like fighting karate better. Where we break arms instead of boards.:asian:

Wish I could have met some you fellas tho.
Respectfully bowing out,
baby beginner Cathy

 

[girlychuks]

You have to take it easy on deadhand. He's my baby brother, and just out of babyhood..... you know how humble these young males can be when they get out of their home territory...

 

[Cthulhu]

Unfortunately, this sort of crap tends to happen with anything that gets a respectable following. Generally, I believe the trend goes:

small following -> cult status -> appreciable following -> commercialization -> bastardization

Cthulhu

 

[GouRonin]

Those flips and spins DO TAKE TALENT. Not that I could do any of them. But they do take effort and an ability. I don't agree with the format of the tournaments and what they constitute a "win" but those acrobatics are something. Not only that but who is to say that some of those things could not be used in combat? I'm of the opinion that while they may seem silly, to dismiss them as unusable would be foolish. I often hear from people that in the movies, "That would never happen." Well guess what? It just did. Given the proper time and place anything can happen.

I don't agree with the sport karate as a martial art designed for self defense. But. I do think that a lot of what they do can have application. Just because people who tai chi don't understand what they are doing beyond the stress relaxation doesn't mean that the combat applications are gone. They are still there, just not developed or tapped.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
:asian: