Questionable background?

[BrandonLucas]

Yeah, I'd say you have a problem.

What about local colleges? Sometimes they offer a martial arts curriculum on an "adult ed" basis that could be considerably less expensive than a dojo. Maybe you could meet other quality martial artists this way, and then train together.

What about training less frequently at a good studio a little further away? This could be productive and less expensive, too. I train once/week in tai chi at a studio about 50 minutes from my home, and then train with my partner at home during the week. I know some people who travel even further than that less frequently to get good training.

Yeah, I'm actually going to look into both of those...there is a college about 20 minutes or so away from me that may offer some instruction...and azmyth has also gotten in touch with someone from Valdosta, which is about an hour and a half from where we live, who offered to help us through video and once a month training. I am just kinda looking more or less to train locally to get back into shape and to refresh what I'm rusty on.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Dear Brandon going back to your teacher who is selling junk pills is like a wife going back to her abusive husband. Your other choice seems a bit better however I am sure you can find something better.
Its tough to find a good teacher sometimes they are not even in the same state as you. You may have to travel a bit or pay a bit more to get to "The real deal" I for one have paided $100 an hr and traveled half way around the world to study. It is the desire to achieve or obtain that drives you in finding that good teacher or style you seek everything else you will find a way around it. So rather than go backwards it might be better to not move for a second to think so you than can move 2 steps forward.

 

[arnisador]

Are those the only 2 choices? One instructor seems to be using the students as guinea pigs while he "develops" a style and the other is practicing morally questionable business. I think I'd have to go with whatever is behind the door number 3.

I think this is good advice, even if you must "create" the door number 3 somehow. Going back to someone involved in shady and possibly illegal and drug-related practices is already poor self-defense. If the hybrid art was good for you or you didn't mind help creating it that'd be fine but that doesn't seem to be the case. You need to think outside the dojo:
-Teach your own class
-Find a YMCA or other gym with boxing or Judo or a self-defense class
-Coach H.S. wrestling somewhere that lacks anyone willing to do so
-Keep scouring the Internet for local garage instructors/sparring partners
-Network at local seminars and keep asking who is from your area
-Learn an art taught via seminar, as JKD and some FMAs and RBSD systems are
-Get a training buddy and practice what you know (or learn from seminars)
-Drive once a month to Macon, practice as best as possible at home
-Go to nearby Karate supply stores and post a note looking for local people
-Find a community college with a program
-Find a senior center offering Tai Chi (maybe the teacher knows a kung fu style too)
-Find a Tae Bo/cardio kickboxing class and inquire if they offer more
-Ask the local police dept. or National Guard unit where they go for H2H training
-Ask the local police dept. or women's center who offers self-defense for women and ask that person for contacts
-Become a reserve police officer/sheriff's deputy and get H2H training there
-etc.

You need to create an opening here!

 

[fireman00]

Are those the only 2 choices? One instructor seems to be using the students as guinea pigs while he "develops" a style and the other is practicing morally questionable business. I think I'd have to go with whatever is behind the door number 3.

Ditto... selling "cut" for coke and kits to avoid drug detection seem to be on the shady side of the street. As far as being a guinea pig... no thanks. There's got to be another instructor around.

 

[towknee]

Brandon,
1) Moral behvior. You know the concept: guilt by association. Tip your hat and walk away. Move forward.
2) Training can take place anywhere in a multitude of environments. The suggestions offered in the earlier posts are ample to meet a wide variety of needs. Define the training goals as simply as you can and move forward toward those goals. Avoid environments where you have moral doubts. Doubts will confound your training focus.
3) Out of shape. I have practiced karate for many years. A couple of years ago I moved out of the structured karate class environment and began training w/others independently.
Last winter a fellow student in a Systema environment did an arm-bar on me and severly tore a muscle in my left arm. It took months to make the arm work correctly. I became a sloth. Then the arm got better. But I was still a sloth badly out of shape.
About three months ago I joined an accelerated sports training program. It is about the same cost as a monthly fee in my old karate classes. Did it for 8 weeks. The focus was on getting in shape.
Now, 2 weekends ago, I started back with the Systema group that has now morphed into a MMA group. I am back in shape and am acquiring new skills.
There are a lot of topics in your post. Perhaps don't try to fix all issues at the same time. I would like to suggest you break it down in a similar fashion as I did. Join a group that focues on getting your butt in shape. Get in shape, clear you mind, get focused. Then pursue the martial arts training issue in an approach as the others have suggested.

Luck.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I rode through Georgia once when I was 3 or 4 and flew over it twice when I was in my early 30s so I know little about it or any martial arts schools in Georgia but you have these schools between 25 and 50 miles away from Cordele and since you are there I am sure you can find more

Family Martial Arts Ctr
(229) 931-0006
141 Thomas Dr
Americus, GA Map 25.6

Perry Tae Kwon DO
(478) 987-8874
229 Wes Park Dr
Perry, GA Map 33.8

Perry Athletic Karate
(478) 987-5295
756 Carroll St
Perry, GA Map 34.3

Haynes School Of Self Defense
(229) 888-1695
l 2004 Doncaster Dr
Albany, GA Map 34.8

Brunson Martial Arts
(229) 432-5352 2610 Dawson Rd # 19
Albany, GA Map 35.1

Crawford's School-Self Defense
(229) 439-1391
Albany, GA Map 35.5

Ata Taekwondo USA
(229) 382-1862
1401 Tift Ave N # C
Tifton, GA Map 38.1

Eastman Black Belt Academy
(478) 374-8887
5110 2nd Ave
Eastman, GA Map 38.5

Lionheart Martial Arts
(229) 388-8553 224 Main St S
Tifton, GA Map 38.8

Warner Robins Karate Academy
(478) 218-7766
105 Chilton Pl
Bonaire, GA Map 41.6

Ata Black Belt Academy
(478) 953-7900
4025 Watson Blvd
Warner Robins, GA Map 45.3

Taekwondo Plus
(478) 923-2040 590 Carl Vinson Pkwy # 100
Warner Robins, GA Map 45.3

Shoto Kan Karate DO
(478) 922-5325
2195 Watson Blvd # B
Warner Robins, GA Map 45.8

Signature Certified Auto Sales
(478) 929-0119
1226 Watson Blvd
Warner Robins, GA Map 46.3

Bryon Tae Kwon DO
(478) 956-4042 110 Gralan Dr
Byron, GA Map 47.4

Shinjimasu Karate
(229) 649-6765 117 N Broad St
Buena Vista, GA Map 49.6

Shinjimasu Karate Academy
(229) 649-2112 117 N Broad St
Buena Vista, GA Map 49.6

And for some reason this was listed under martial arts and is in Cordele

Gtc Studio & Health Food Ctr
(229) 273-5671
107 W 11th Ave
Cordele, GA Map 0.4

 

[jks9199]

As far as there being other options, I assure you there are none around here. I'm in South Georgia...pretty far south...there's not much here in my town or anything an hour surrounding me that I could afford to go to...there are a couple of TKD schools about 30 minutes from me, but I can't afford their prices...it's up to 85 dollars a month with those guys. I guess what I'm really trying to do here is justify going back to my previous instructor...he only charges 30 dollars a month, and is in the same town as I am, so distance and gas is not a factor there. I just don't want to feel like I'm selling out by going back to him. But, I would only be going back long enough to receive enough instruction to feel comfortable teaching on my own...I have another friend that used to go, and wants to go back with me...he's not a black belt yet, and wants to earn his while I relearn what I learned. Like I said, I think I'm just trying to justify this whole thing in my mind. I really don't know. I know it sounds redicilous for me to come on this forum to try to make up my mind about it, but I really don't know what to do at this point.

Have you actually talked to some of these schools? Especially if your goal is to become an instructor, they may be able to work with you on the fees in return for being an assistant instructor and helping run the school. Or... their fees may be more negotiable than you realize.

 

[Kwan Jang]

If you want a higher quality of instruction, paying only $85/mo. is not unreasonable. Deliver some pizza part time and raise the funds. As far as distance goes, I have students who drive hours to train with us and I fly back out to California 3-4x/yr. to train with my instructor. I'm not trying to preach, but if you want something badly enough, you'll find a way to make it work.

As far as awarding someone dan ranking after just a seminar, this is a pathetic thing, but it's not the first I've heard of it. I know the heads of a franchise that my instructors and I did a few seminars for a few years back that does this type of thing. After we did the seminars for them, they tried to copy our curriculum and MMA format and then mass produce it.

The difference between our schools and theirs is that our schools started cross training from our traditional Korean base in Arnis (Remy Presas) and Escrima (Mike Innay and Jimmy Tacosa) in 1979; in Muay Thai since 1980 (originally Benny Urquidez, later the trainers at Fairtex); BJJ since the early 90's (Ralf and Cesar Gracie); MMA and Submission Grappling since 1998 or '99 w/ Frank Shamrock and Bob Cook). Each of these guys we've trained with extensively for years and most have had training programs or classes within our schools. All the "old school" black belts trained directly with these guys and the kids who came up later grew up on their material even if they weren't there directly. Their schools are trying to reproduce and mass produce what we built up over decades without putting in the work.

 

[Perpetual White Belt]

I live in South GA, where the only things to do around here are hang out at the movies and at Wal-Mart. And no, I'm not kidding. That's why there's not much of a selection of martial arts schools around.

Sounds like my town. We have a commercial school (Okinawa Karate), one semi-comercial (Senkotiros Arnis, That'd be me.) and 3-4 back-yard guys. Plus there's another comercial school 20 minutes away (TSD) and at least 2 places (Another TSD and some questionable hybrid Shotokan-American Kenpo and "Silat" school) and I'm sure if I asked around I could find a few other places in that town, in fact as I type I believe there's a Wado-ryu school there as well. As other's have said, ask around you may be surprised what you find.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Brandon

I've got a few questions about my martial arts background...

What are your questions about your martial arts background? From reading your post it sounds like your questioning what you should do in trying to find a new school or go back to your old school, but what are you questioning about your background?

I've taken Tae Kwon Do for 8 years, quit going for a 6 year period, and am considering going back. I started taking Tae Kwon Do in '93, and I earned was promosted to "recomended" black belt in '96, earned my 1st degree in '97, and then earned my "recomended" 2nd degree in '99. The reason I put recomended in quotations is because I've heard that there is no such thing as recomended ranks...but I really am not sure...I just took the rank at face value, and used the extra year that the recomended ranks gave me to advance my skills.

I've been studying other "arts" from a friend of mine that took TKD with me for the 8 years that I was going. He opened his own TKD school under our instructor, and had the school open for several years before having a falling out with our instructor and closing the school.

From the sounds of it you have taken TKD long enough to have a proper understanding of the basics, you should understand how things work, and how things should be laid out? How long did you study TKD under your friend before he closed the school? And were you studying TKD there as well?

The other "arts" that I was studying from my friend was supposed to be a hybrid of other arts that he was combining to create his own art. The "arts" include: kali, escrima, kenpo, american karate, jiu jitsu, arnis, and some TKD. The reason "arts" is in quotations is because he only went to a few siminars for each particular martial art, and was given the rank of black belt through the people who put on the seminar, which I disagree with. I only took this because I wanted to be in some form of martial art without having to go back to my old instructor.

I don't have a problem so much with the hybrid stuff per say, but are you saying he got a black belt in each of these arts by attending a few seminars in each system? So does he have a BB in say Kali, one in Arnis, one in Escrima, and one also in Kenpo? Or does he have a BB in one form of Filipino martial art another in an American Karate/Kenpo system or a Jujitsu system?

Well, I have just recently quit going to my friend's school...it just cost too much and was too much of a drive, and I really didn't feel like I was getting anything out of it at all. We didn't do anything the same from class to class, and the whole story would take waaaayyy too long to explain. Just suffice it to say that it was unsatisifactory to have to pay money to go.

I'm now considering going back to my first instructor, and have run into a kind of moral dilemma. First off, I am still friends with the guy I was taking the hybrid art from, and I don't want to disrepect him by going back to my previous instructor who he had a falling out with. We both talked about me going back to him before, and both of us were pretty much on the same side of the fence. The other dilemma I run into is can I overlook what he sells to learn the martial art he teaches? The whole concept of martial arts to me should be to live what you teach...and to me, he doesn't do that. But by the same token, I have no other options available to me to go to another school.

Frankly I wouldn't worry about disrepecting the guy even if you are friends if you feel you aren't getting anything out of his class and you decide to leave it. He is having you pay money and it is a business arrangement if he is failing to deliver the goods (so to speak) you as a customer (because that is what you are when he requires you to pay) have the right to leave when he doesn't fulfill his side of the arrangement. Which it sounds like he isn't, no matter what his rank is.

I feel like I can overlook what he sells to go back...after all, I went for 8 years without knowing what was going on. I just don't want to be disrespectful to my friend, since we discussed this whole thing before. But by the same token, I feel like he was disresptful to me, because I was paying him money for a service that he was not delivering on, and insisted that I pay him, which I did.

Again to the previous point you aren't being disrepectful, you state yourself that he was having you pay money for a service that he failed to deliever on.

I'm out of shape, and I am desperately wanting to get back into shape and get back into the martial arts scene again, but at this point I'm not sure what to do. If anyone has any suggestions, that would be most helpful. Also, if anyone has any questions about anything I tried to explain, feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Brandon

To be honest you have a delima however from reading the posts I believe everyone has given you very sound advice about not going back to your first instructor and after reading the other thread mentioned, I'd leave that school as well.

Someone mentioned teaching, and frankly that's what I would recommend if you can't find a school. Why not look at it from the stand point you are going to be part of a solution instead of part of the problem? You know from your experiences what can make a bad school, you surely have an idea of what makes a good school, what you would want to see in a school. I think you can make a sound judgement on how to set up a class and then teach.

Teach at a rec center, a health club, a chruch or something, give something back to the commumity around you by helping to right a wrong these two men have created. I'm not suggesting going out and renting floor space and creating a store front school just a class or two a week.

From your intitial question it sounds like you lack confidence in your background but in reading your post it sounds like you have issues with the two instructors (one being a friend, the other who doesn't practice what he preaches so to speak) and you are trying to find more instruction to get over the confidence issue.

You state you are out of shape, so am I. Yet I took on a class this year teaching at a local rec center (the instructor had to give up the class). But I will say this, this has been one of the best blessings for me teaching again. But it has forced me to revaulate my teaching methods, my curriculmn, my way of handling issues with students and parents, what I want to teach etc. etc. etc. All of those areas are seperate from my physical fittness, or how well I look in a gi. Or even my rank pedigree for that matter. My students and their parents could care less really what my rank is or who I have trained with etc. etc. etc. Instead it is do I make the class fun for them, are they learning something are they getting good vaule for their money to the kids want to come to class?

So for the short time that I have the kids in class it is my challenge that they would learn something and be better for it (if they chose to). I teach them to work together, respect one another, how to defend themselves, and give them drills to gain self confidence. They don't care how high I kick, they care how high they can kick and if they get encouragement when they do it right. They don't care if I can kick over the Wave Master it's if they can knock it over that counts.

It's not about me, it's about them. And you know teaching drives me to learn more about the martial arts and other things as well. If you teach well, and provide people with a good product you won't be reading about you on a message board under the heading that "I have a delima" with the opening line being.
I really like this school, my instructor knows the material, his class is fun, I feel like I am learning a lot, he treats my family (kids) well, the price is right, but he is not fit. He can't kick high, he looks a little over wieght in his gi, what should I do? Should I leave or stay? Any thoughs?

Submitted with respect and hey you thought you had a long post.
Mark

 

[Mark Lynn]

Just FYI

On my previous post I mentioned that I don't have a problem with the hybrid stuff. Before anyone gets in a tizzy, I have had experience with a couple of instructors who have done this.

One was a guy who tried to combine Jujitsu, Arnis, Wing Chun and Gojo ryu karate. Like Brandon I was a bit taken aback by it. I was paying money for a product I wasn't getting because he was shaping his system while learning the arnis on the side teaching us what he learned at his last lesson and trying to incoperate it into his own system. This is wrong and I left that school.

But I've trained with others who through research and training combined different concepts and ideas from anywhere from self defense to tradtional martial arts. Many of the "American Karate/TKD" schools have done this as well. And if you really look into it the Filipino martial arts are all about this. So that is why I said I don't have a problem with the blending. But blending is off of the subject of this thread and I don't mean to hijack it.

To get back on Brandon's issue though one more thing to add here.
I would recommend that Brandon talk to his friend and explain to him why he is leaving. And not use some excuse like it costs to much either. Rather I would explain him what his real issues are which seem to be posted in the other post. I belive that we as martial artists should help other instructors if we see problems and offer some advice to correct it, it's up to the instructor if they take it or not however.

I did this recently with another senior instructor of a class, we had a long discussion of about a couple of hours with us discussing his classes and my classes among other things. Where I thought he might not like my advice of his classes he in fact really appreciated my input and he plans after the new year to make some changes. It actually helped our relationship as instructors.



Mark

 

[BrandonLucas]

Well, as far as the hybrid martial art goes, I really don't object to this at all...I know this really should belong in another thread, but I just wanted to throw this out there. In my way of thinking, everyone fights with a type of hybrid art...simply because everyone is unique, an no one person fights the same as the next, nor do they fight the same way everytime. People change, whether they want to or not, and so does their art. So no, I'm not opposed at all to learning an art that someone else has constructed from what they believe to be useful. The problem that I didn't put in the thread about my friend's school is that he changes the classes a little too much...we never did the same thing from class to class. There was pretty much no structure, and when I would test in his system, I would find out that the self defense movements he was teaching me were being moved to the previous rank's requirements...so even though I earned the next rank up, I'm really no better off than before I tested, rank-wise, if that makes any kind of sense. so basically, the problem that I was having with the class wasn't so much the hybrid art, but more of his teaching skills, or lack thereof.

But, back to the point at hand, I've come to my decision, and alot of what helped me make this decision was based on what many of you wrote on this thread, and I thank you very much for offering your opinions. I think the best answer for me at this point is to go back to my first instructor. I've thought about where I stand morally, and I've come to the following conclusion: If I chose not to go back to my first instructor based on the fact that he sells questionable, but not illeagle, materials, then I should also choose not to get gas at gas stations anymore, because many of them in this area sell ciggerette rolling papers. And I know what people are going to use those for. And they also sell miniature flowers in glass tubes...and people use the glass tubes for crack pipes.

My instructor never offered me any of the things he sold that I found questionable...the only reason I knew about them at all was because he offered me a job for the summer working in the shop selling these products, and I asked questions to know what I was selling. Not only that, but for the 8 years that I attended the dojo, he never once treated me with anything but respect and dicipline, the same as what I would expect from any instructor.

As far as there being other options available, I know of all the other schools that were listed previously in this thread...two of which are the ones that I'm talking about...and I cannot afford them. The town where I live is pretty low on the economy scale, and I would love to move to find another school, but I cannot afford to do that right now. And on top of all of this, I have my wife and family to think of, who I put first and foremost, above my desire to persue my martial arts career. I take martial arts very seriously, but it's all for nothing if I'm not happy with the rest of my life, and my wife and family is what makes me happy. I don't have a reasonable way to earn extra money to attend more expensive classes...that would mean putting more time into a second job as well as going to my first job and martial arts classes....and that's time I'm not willing to give up that's spent with family.

All in all, I feel like it's the right choice that I'm making, and I'm pretty excited. I think I am going to talk to my friend about some of the decisions that he has made, and just talk to him as a friend. Either he'll listen and understand, or he won't. I can only hope that he'll be respectful of my decision...and if he chooses not to be respectful, then that's ok too...I'm happy with the decision I'm making, and so is my wife. Again, I thank you all for the help and opinions, and I'm definately going to enjoy being a part of this forum community.

 

[MarkBarlow]

Obviously, you have a clearer vision of the situation than any of us. Any perception we have is drawn from both your posts and our personal experiences which skew the picture differently for each of us.

Good luck with your training.

 

[arnisador]

Obviously, you have a clearer vision of the situation than any of us. Any perception we have is drawn from both your posts and our personal experiences which skew the picture differently for each of us.

Good luck with your training.

Full agreement. If this is what's best for you, good luck!

 

[azmyth]

Howdy.

Me, and brandon have both been in martial arts for quite some time. Brandon started out with the instructor he is talking about going back to, and I started out with the friend that now teaches the hybrid art. The friend, is actually a student of the instructor he is talking about going back to, so his roots are in TKD. Its the only art that I can see him teaching legitimately, because its the only one that I know for a fact he put the time in to learn in a instructor/student environment. Back when he had a school teaching TKD, thats where I went.. and I loved it.

After a while due to parental complaints, he closed down (he's not good with kids at all, my kids would not go to a school of his). That left me high and dry for martial arts. I wound up going back to the school me and brandon are both speaking of. By the way, its the only one you guys listed thats directly in Cordele. Georgia Taekwondo Center. He's been teaching for some 30 years now I think it is. He's been around since before I was born in Cordele. That has to say something. Anyway, I went for a while there, and quit due to financial reasons. I never found the time to come back, until me and Brandon started hanging out and we decided we wanted to get back into it.

We chose the hybrid friends school because neither one of us wanted to go back to the place in cordele because pretty much all he had at the time was kids. We wanted a more adult background, and at the time we "thought" we wanted to learn something different. As it turned out, it wound up being that we were to drop everything we've ever known about TKD to learn this new art that just seemed to be all kinds of random stuff thrown together. Me and Brandon's motives are different.. but the same. I decided that I wanted to dedicate all my time to mastering one art, rathering than being a allinwonder. I enjoy TKD, I enjoy flashy and high kicks, and I enjoy point sparring. I'm not so much trying to learn to hurt someone, as I am learning self respect.. discipline and exercise. The Hybrid school has a "survivalist" mentality. Where its all about kill or be killed. I don't care about learning how to stab someone with a knife, or hit him in the head with a brick. I want to learn martial arts history, and traditional forms, and such.

With that in mind, the school in Cordele is exactly that. Its structured, and its traditional. The instructor is a 5th dan, and has been doing TKD since the 70s. He KNOWS his stuff. He's never done anything to me to be disrespectful. The only things I ever had issues with was the fact that he had mainly kids and it was kind of turning into a day care. But, I do understand that in this day and age you have to make a living. I also had an issue with the selling of the products. But, now that I am going back and looking at it. People sell spray paint and glue all the time to people knowing what they are probably going to do with it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't sell it. It just means, those people are idiots and its their problem when they are in the hospital for inhaling substances. I know he is aware of what the products do and what they are used for. Its not up to him to make the decision of what people do with them. A gun store couldn't close up shop just because people buy guns to kill people with. If he was selling drugs or illegal items.. then I would be gone in a second. But, everything in the store is some sort of herbal substance that has positive uses. I don't feel I should down him for making a living. People are going to find negative ways to use lots of things.

I feel like, for the money. I will learn what I am looking to learn at his school with miminal drama. Lets face it, there is going to some issues anywhere you go. Best to pick the place with the best cost, and least amount of problems. Of the schools listed.. I would not even step foot in half of them.. just by seeing their students in action/hearing horror stories about them. IMO 30 years of excellent martial arts study and instruction, affordable prices with no hidden fees, thats extremely local. Kinda outweighs the whole "I sell herbs, that COULD be used for illegal practices as well as perfectly safe legal practices".

Alot of the places around here have what I call the "Cobra Kai" syndrome, and if you have seen karate kid you know what I am talking about.

I'm good friends with an instructor from Valdosta, who has his own pretty large TKD school up there. He's offered for me and Brandon to come train with him on weekends when we can and buy video. He also teaches some Jiu Jitsu as well, and has a slightly different variation from the TKD we are both accustomed to. I think combining that with going back to our old school (which we have heard has lots more adults going now) will be just what we need. Then we can enjoy a structured learning environment, where we can feel like we are moving forward, and KNOWING where we are in the game rather than never knowing anything about anything, except for when the next hockheim seminar that I need to pay 150 bucks for is gonna be.

 

[Tez3]

I think that you should probably check with your local law enforcement or a lawyer as to whether selling drug paraphanalia (as it is termed here, not the drugs itself)) is illegal or just immoral as over here he'd be shut down if if became known he was selling his products to facilitate illegal drug use. I think you are fooling yourself if you are justifying going back by using the gunshop/petrol station analogy, Quick Caps are used for only one reason and that is to hide drug use, they are not a product that is used for any other reason such as spray paint.They are advertised as and sold as a product to enable you to have drug free urine on testing.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I think that you should probably check with your local law enforcement or a lawyer as to whether selling drug paraphanalia (as it is termed here, not the drugs itself)) is illegal or just immoral as over here he'd be shut down if if became known he was selling his products to facilitate illegal drug use. I think you are fooling yourself if you are justifying going back by using the gunshop/petrol station analogy, Quick Caps are used for only one reason and that is to hide drug use, they are not a product that is used for any other reason such as spray paint.They are advertised as and sold as a product to enable you to have drug free urine on testing.

Actually, the technical use for QuikCaps is to clean your system of any unwanted chemicals...and I believe Inosotol powder is used for balancing your metabolism...both of these products have good uses, and I can't very well say that people would buy these products soley for their more sinister purposes, any more than I can say that someone would roll a regular ciggarette with the rolling paper sold at the gas station, as opposed to a joint. I don't think I'm fooling myself at all with this. None of the products he sells are illegal, I've looked that much up. That's not to say they can't serve an illegal purpose, much the same way as the whole rolling paper scenerio. Morally, I don't think he's doing me a disservice by this, because he's never tried to push these things on me or anyone else. The people that are morally wrong are the ones who buy these products and use them for their sinister purposes...and noone can control how someone uses a product after it's paid for.

Anyway, this point could be argued back and forth until the end of time...it is an interesting discussion, but it's one that should probably be saved for another thread for another time. I don't want to become the new guy on here who starts the huge arguments and stuff...I just want to learn and discuss...

So, off subject, for anyone who's interested, I've emailed Ashida Kim to see if he can teach me his awesome ways, and will post his response on here if he actually does resond. If anyone reading this doesn't know to whom I'm referring, check him out in the horror stories forum, round about the third page or so, under the thread ashida kim.

Until next time, Good times...

 

[arnisador]

Selling drug paraphernalia is a questionable area, and local laws vary...but if it's legal, well, then it meets a certain standard.

 

[Tez3]

http://www.mbdetox.com/product23/product_info.html

I think as part of the OP was the selling of questionable products, it is very germane to the discussion what exactly is being sold. The OP stated that he was told by the instructor concerned that the products he sold were for using with drugs.Quote and Inosotol powder, which he explained to me that people would buy to add to cocaine to spread it further. I very much disagreed with these business practices, and left the dojo for this reason unquote.

If the OP disagreed with it then why is it acceptable now and why is now merely interesting? It was part of the problem as it was presented to us, presumably if the OP hadn't felt strongly about the selling of the products he wouldn't have left the dojo and there would have been original post!

 

[stickarts]

I am coming into the discussion very late, but I agree with other posts regarding doing a thorough search of all schools, clubs, and instructors in your area and first reviewing all possible options. If going back to your first instructor is your best option then go for it!
It is not disrespectful to seek another instructor if its not working out for you. In my view, it's more about how a student goes about doing it. If you are open and honest about your change and do it respectfully then you have every right to choose the instructor who is the best match for you and your goals.

Good luck with your training!