Gou you are right about Jay T. Will defecting to the Tracy camp. But he redefected back to the Parker Camp because Parker was his best friend. They were in the Coast Guard and became one in the same. So, it was not until Master Will switched back to the Parker Camp that he was promoted to 8th Degree! Before he died, Master Will promoted only 2 Black belts to the rank of 6th Degree. Master Dave Harris was one of those Black Belts. In the American Kenpo promotion ranking system; one would have to promote 2 ranks under themselves. Master Harris is head of the United Kenpo Karate Association/UKKA , in which Grandmaster Will founded and directed. For more info; you can contact the UKKA at 2805 E. Oakland Blvd. PMB#223 Ft. Lauderdale, Fl 33306 USA , Phone # 945-941-8436, Fax# 945-941-3194! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
Sir; I only have one question then. If you are right about Jay T. Will being of just the Tracy Lineage; then why does the Tracy Promotion List not include him even at the rank of Shodan, much less 7th Dan/Shichidan? This would lead one to assume that Jay T. Will was an Ed. Parker Black Belt. Now, my instructor was on their black belt list for promotion to Sandan in 04/90. Jay T. Will promotions are no where to be found because he was promoted by GM Parker! The reason why Jay T. Will is on the Tracy Lineage tree anyway is because the Tracy's were Master Will's Sempai at the Parker Camp. So, as Black Belt equivalents; the Tracy's were considered assistant instructors and took over classes when needed. This gave them the right to say that Master Will was a student of theirs also! They even helped GM Parker name his American Kenpo Techniques! The real information is in my last post which includes the address and phone number of Master Dave Harris of the UKKA or United Kenpo Karate Association in which Master Will Promoted Him to 6th Dan. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
Go, Not Important is not exactly right here. If he would have known why the Tracy's claimed Jay T. Will in their lineage, then he would have known or said that the Tracy's were Master Will's Sempai in GM Parker's Dojo! My teacher, Master Ed. Hutchison is shown on the Tracy Promotion List, yet Master Will is not included on any of the Tracy's promotion lists, because they were Master Will's instructors at the Parker Dojo. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
Sir; that would have some merit; but if you check out Tracy's explantation of James Ibrao and the Partker Days he does state that Jay T. Will was a Parker Black Belt. Even the rank of Shodan would trace him directly to the Parker Lineage. The reason why i say this is because Master Ed. Hutchison did not put the Tracy's in his Lineage Chart back to GM Parker. Though Al Tracy Promoted him to Sandan in April Of 1990. Yet, he did include Jay. T. Will and from Will directly to Parker. Not, Will, Tracy. and then Parker! Since Master Hutchison Founded the non-traditional no holds barred street combative of Dragon Kenpo; his technique names were right out of the Tracy lineage also! Defense Against A Choke From Behind, etc,. I personally do not think that Hutchison did not want to distance himself from the Tracy Lineage because of Master Will's cocaine convictions! I feel that it was just because that Jay T. Will was the proof , since he was a Parker Black Belt that he had a direct lineage to GM Parker. If you would please check out my previous post on this subject; the name, address, and phone number of Master Harris is posted. You can ask him why he was promoted by Master Will to 6th Dan and why he would put false information or mis-information about his direct Lineage to Grandmaster Ed. Parker and not through the Tracy Brothers! This is an excellent discussion on the lineage and rank of Parker and Tracy, as well as Parker/Tracy Black Belts. Also, thank you sir for your information into the behind the scene lives of these contoversial martial arts legends! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
Sir, we are not beefing about anything! I 'am in the direct lineage of both Master Will and the Tracy Brother Masters to Ed. Parker! Master Will taught my instructor, Master Hutchison whom in turn taught myself and others, etc,.! Thus, this information which was given on this forum is not a heated argument about who, is a bad martial artist and who is not! It is just an honorable discussion on the information which we all have received over a said period of time in our learning process. Why would i down my own lineage, for personal, martial or any other reasons? I'am happy to be openminded enough to absorb these previous posts without bias toward any. I 'am very happy to be a part of both lineages, because i can now trace my lineage to Yoshida also. I honor the Tracy's for their historic work on the martial arts and continued efforts to bring the truth to light concerning both lineages and the Yoshida Mitose Clan! I hope this gives you another view of the origin/s of modern kenpo! Sincerely; In Humility; Chiduce!Originally posted by donald
To Whom It May Concern,
Why all the hullabaloo? Mr.Will was a talented martial artist, and kenpo senior. The mess and/or messes he got into later in life. Have no real bearing on who promoted who when, does it? As far as I can recollect from print etc.. Mr.Will was a legite blackbelt, and this was attested to by both Mr.Parker, and the Tracy camp. I don't understand what the original beef was regarding all this?
Go i agree, with enough money you probably would have bought the name of the system online! Yet the DKKA is no more and that in a sad way is good for the kenpo community today. Ed Hutchison is believed to have taught as many as 10,000 students also! Dragon Kenpo is now under a new age of development and rehabilitation. We are now headed by an 8th Degree Black Belt in Hutchison's Dragon Kenpo Karate and 10th Degree Black Belt in Hap Ki Mu Sul. The International Dragon Kenpo Association has members world wide and even re-certifies and verifies the old DKKA Certifications. There are now three types of memberships; Full Member; Associate Member; and Student Member! There are as many different styles of Hutchison Dragon Kenpo as it's current member schools and clubs! There also is video testing thru 4th Dan and after this ranking there is sweat time and contribution to the martial community and arts time before testing can occur beyond 4th Dan! Dragon Kenpo today is in collaboration with the World Sokeship Council, Various Independant Martial Arts Associations And Federations; And New System Certification Associations! The IDKA members range from the average practitioner to Martial Arts Hall Of Fame Inductees. We are growing in the positive! Yes, the lineage of modern kenpo is being rewritten and so is the case with the Self Defense Science Of Dragon Kenpo Karate! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
Sir, Dragon Kenpo was never a sham. Master Ed. Hutchison was indeed taught by Master Jay.T. Will and Founded the Dragon Kenpo Karate System. The head of the system now is Grandmaster Rodney Lacey! Master Lacey was the only DK practitioner to attain the rank of 8th Dan/Hachidan to my knowledge, which was conferred by Master Ed. Hutchison! Master Lacey is also a 10th Dan/Judan in the martial art of Hap Ki Mu Sul in which he founded. Master Lacey's Hap Ki Mu Sul Certified By The World Sokeship Council and he is recognized by this same council as an 8th Dan Dragon Kenpo Karate! Master Hutchison taught several Sokes and 10th Dans the Dragon Kenpo System. One of which is Soke Giovani Acevedo of the renowned International Goju Kempo Federation University Of Martial Arts. Master Lacey is the Director Of Operations Of The International Dragon Kenpo Association! I'am also on the Board Of Directors of the IDKA and hold the position of Secretary. Master Lacey is the Headmaster Of the Defensive Arts Academy, the Url is http://www.geocities.com/defensive_arts_academy and my Url/s are http://www.chiduce.swsites.net and http://maxpages.com/butokutsururyu The other pages can be foud on either of these sites. Take a look at Dragon Kenpo's Different looks on my favorite links page! The sham thing was never true, yet Master Hutchison had some questionable practices in regard to awarding rank! To tell you the truth; some how by Gods Grace And Mercy; it all worked out just fine! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!Originally posted by donald
Chiduce,
What is Dragon Kenpo? I remember the ads in Blackbelt, but never really checked it out. If I understand G.R.'s post regarding this correctly, the system, or Association was a sham? Your post sounded like you agreed with that assesment in past tence, but now they have overhauled their Association practices? Who is this person/persons who has taken over from Mr.Hutchison? Do they trace their kenpo to the Parker/Tracy tree? Just asking out of curiosity, no agenda okay!?
Salute in Christ,
Donald
Yes sir, our lineage has been verified through Grandmaster Jay. T. Will to Grand Master Ed. Parker And Grandmasters, Tracy Brothers. The lineage was confirmed by Grandmaster Al Tracy. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!Originally posted by donald
Chiduce,
What is Dragon Kenpo? I remember the ads in Blackbelt, but never really checked it out. If I understand G.R.'s post regarding this correctly, the system, or Association was a sham? Your post sounded like you agreed with that assesment in past tence, but now they have overhauled their Association practices? Who is this person/persons who has taken over from Mr.Hutchison? Do they trace their kenpo to the Parker/Tracy tree? Just asking out of curiosity, no agenda okay!?
Salute in Christ,
Donald
