Your Method Of Pivoting & Structure Of Your Bong Sau?

wingchun100

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
3,300
Reaction score
522
Location
Troy NY
In my experience, when someone is rushing at you, you tend to move faster. Just because Fut Sao moves at a measured pace in the form doesn't mean he moves slowly in application. I have learned the hard way that assumptions based on appearance can be misleading.

Maybe not, but I still say you will fight the way you practice. Does this mean we should really hit and give each other black eyes and less teeth every class? No, but there are ways to still practice your punches right without doing that: wall bags so you can hit full force...making sure you enter deep enough where you COULD actually hit...proper release of energy, etc. But you won't even have to worry about hitting hard if your structure is bad.
 

mook jong man

Senior Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
3,080
Reaction score
261
Location
Matsudo , Japan
l'm thinking an opponent not directly to the side , but maybe situated about 45 degrees.

If he only pivots his upper body to face that threat , then the fact remains if he wants to follow up and chase the target he has to then re-orientate his feet to point in the direction he wants them to go which is after the opponent.

Now granted it might only take a little bit longer for him to reposition his feet , but in conventional Wing Chun pivoting where the whole body pivots as a unit the feet are already in position to give chase or kick etc.

This is apart from the other issue where I believe he is only using the upper body to generate force.
 

futsaowingchun

Brown Belt
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
438
Reaction score
82
Location
NJ, USA
You pivot slowly. Okay, so what if someone is attacking you from your right side? Pivoting slowly won't cut it when someone is rushing at you.

how you practice a form apply it is two different things. The forms build of the body it does not teach you to apply it that way. This is what you do in this case. you turn also turning the feet using the gan sao.
( starting at 1:08) of course if someone attack you fast you move fast.the form is not about fighting just development.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

futsaowingchun

Brown Belt
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
438
Reaction score
82
Location
NJ, USA
yes your right..in application you move fast..in tai chi you move slow it does not mean you apply it that way..it's just common sense..
 

JPinAZ

Blue Belt
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Messages
231
Reaction score
81
Location
Arizona
If done correctly it wont damage your knees or ankles..If you noticed I perform the movement slowly not fast its done as a stretch,slow is the key..In the SLT the wrist is stretched,the hips,knees and ankles in the Chum Kiu.Then continued in Bil Tzu form..Power comes from the elasticity of the tendons and joints. I have been doing this for 32 yrs I have no problem with my joints..

Not saying you can't do it, but how do you pivot slowly as a stretch and without injury at the full speed of a fight?
 

Hong Kong Pooey

Blue Belt
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
278
Reaction score
96
STARTING AROUND 22 SECONDS YOU CAN SEE THE PIVOT WITHOUT TURNING THE FEET.


Pardon my ignorance, but what lineage is this please?

I'm a beginner in WT and this is so different to the CK taught in my school that it blew mind! I'm guessing it must be non-Yip Man?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

futsaowingchun

Brown Belt
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
438
Reaction score
82
Location
NJ, USA
In a fight I would not not turn a full 180 degree as it is not necessary. It's like practicing to kick high but you apply the kicks low. the forms build of the body.its not about fighting with them.
 

lsanczyk

White Belt
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Maybe not, but I still say you will fight the way you practice. Does this mean we should really hit and give each other black eyes and less teeth every class? No, but there are ways to still practice your punches right without doing that: wall bags so you can hit full force...making sure you enter deep enough where you COULD actually hit...proper release of energy, etc. But you won't even have to worry about hitting hard if your structure is bad.
He doesn't pivot only when the distance is not changing. He does it when he steps, or even when he does a double "gan sao". I don't know what would he do in a "oponent rounded him at perfect distance" situation, but he seems to be training it in both ways.
 
OP
ST1Doppelganger

ST1Doppelganger

Brown Belt
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
473
Reaction score
130
Nice one of the first threads I created lives on. I think bong sau it's a good subject to discuss since it's one of the moves that different lineages or instructors teach very differently.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
 

anerlich

Brown Belt
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Messages
438
Reaction score
308
Location
Sydney AUS
I take very small steps to pivot. Probably pivoting on the ball of the foot. I prefer a more mobile structure to being rooted like an oak tree.

Bon sao is done at various heights, but we take the elbow above the shoulder where it is done high in the form, to better protect the head. The choice of bon over other blocks IMO is not due to the height of the attack but the angle it is coming in from.

Wanna argue? Pick someone else. I'm just answering the question.
 

Herbie

White Belt
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
14
Reaction score
4
... I would not recommend WC/WT/VT as a "supplemental" art. The system has narrow tolerances...
I'll second that opinion. I tried really hard to empty my cup, and keep my WC separate from my previous training. Couldn't do it. In my experience, you can't do a little WC. All in, or don't do it. In my sifu's school, you weren't going to advance until your structure and movements fit in the WC box. And you don't see new material until you advance. Nothing wrong with that. But, a man has to know his limitations. In my case, moved on.
 
Top