World Jiu-Jitsu Champion Killed

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JowGaWolf

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That school has been there a very long time, with a few notable alumni, not that it matters. While I do believe that background affects perspective to some extent, it isn’t always helpful to add it to discussion, and it may or may not provide insight. It has little to do with “street cred” and more to do with shared experiences.
He missed it. He brought up the focus of being poor and no one is talking about being poor. He still failed to speak of his experiences of environment.
 

Steve

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what I was doing was clear. Sports vs self defense. I stated it in the first post. What's your perspective on that. Because right now all I'm reading is about your perspective about me and not about sports, self defense, nor the situation that Lo faced. Other than your belief that one behavior cannot change the behavior of others.
Likewise. I'd like nothing more than to get this thread back on topic. Let's do it.

I've posted my thoughts several times, but the TL;DR version is that I disagree with you.

The slightly longer sum up:
  1. In this thread, self defense vs sport is a bunch of opportunistic, monday morning QB'ing by a bunch of guys who admit to making the same mistakes or worse, and are here to speak about it because they were lucky, not skilled.
  2. That skill doesn't help you if someone wants to shoot you and isn't in the mood to hesitate.
  3. And that in addition to be incorrect, it's also in really poor taste to blame the victim by suggesting it's his fault he executed.
 

Steve

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He missed it. He brought up the focus of being poor and no one is talking about being poor. He still failed to speak of his experiences of environment.
I must have missed it. Can you explain it to me so I can better understand your perspective?
 

Steve

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That school has been there a very long time, with a few notable alumni, not that it matters. While I do believe that background affects perspective to some extent, it isn’t always helpful to add it to discussion, and it may or may not provide insight. It has little to do with “street cred” and more to do with shared experiences.
Complete tangent but If you say it’s older, i believe you. I was going off the wiki article.

Regarding alumni, I don’t think anyone notable was there when I was, but we can claim Jimi Hendrix and Quincy Jones. Also Linda Lee, Bruce lee’s wife went to Garfield. Macklemore might be notable, depending on who you are. Oh and I think ari melber, a cable news host. That’s it for us.
 
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JowGaWolf

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In this thread, self defense vs sport is a bunch of opportunistic, monday morning QB'ing by a bunch of guys who admit to making the same mistakes or worse, and are here to speak about it because they were lucky, not skilled.
It's not. Did you know thatthere are self defense classes that covers scenarios where there is a possibility that the aggressor has a weapon. The police talk about it all the time as being a risk to fighting a stranger. Even before this incident I about the risk of people pulling stations on others a on the basketball court.
That skill doesn't help you if someone wants to shoot you and isn't in the mood to hesitate.
It doesn't help you if the person has made up their mind to shoot you., but it does help before they get to that point. A person would then have the opportunity to talk the person down from their emotional cliff. The police use this skill set all the time. If some was waving a bottle at me while I was sitting at a table then I would that time to try to get him off that emotional cliff. I don't want feed on into any justification that he or she may need to attack me with the bottle or something else. The more time I can create the better my chances are to be able to do a good analysis of my situation.

The goal is to be the person that the attacker doesn't want to shoot. Sometimes a person may not have that opportunity as the first the the attacker may do is shoot right off the back.
 
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JowGaWolf

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And that in addition to be incorrect, it's also in really poor taste to blame the victim by suggesting it's his fault he executed.
again no one is putting blame blame except for you. The worst thing thing a person can do is assign blame, which makes people write off the situation like you have. for exaple your #1 isnt about what happened orthe possible options that could have been taken . you are focused on what others think and not about the situation that Lo found himself in.

#2 you ignore what happened before the gun was pulled out. You dont mention the conflict that occurred when the bottle was the weapon. You don't mention what was done before Lo took down the attacker. You don't meeting that Lo's friends tried to help the attacker up. All of that stuff happened before the gun was pulled out. Instead you focus on the trigger pull which by that time is to late.

I won't discuss the trigger pull because it's the final action. It's like jumping off a tall building. The question is that the person jumped. After the person makes that action there nothing else that can be done. The questions should fall around what could have been done to avoid that final action. In this case what could have been done before the gun was pulled out.
 
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JowGaWolf

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I must have missed it. Can you explain it to me so I can better understand your perspective?
It's not important enough to explain it. Unless Woo Gar wants to go into details about his personal experiences. Based on what he said he's got me beat in the area of being attacked. Maybe one day I'll have a story about being stabbed. My wife has been stabbed before and that's enough for the family.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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It's not important enough to explain it. Unless Woo Gar wants to go into details about his personal experiences. Based on what he said he's got me beat in the area of being attacked. Maybe one day I'll have a story about being stabbed. My wife has been stabbed before and that's enough for the family.
One stab, two stab, ah ah ah. It’s not that glorious. I got between two guys to stop one from using a cue stick and the other from using the bottle he just broke. Long story short, I got stabbed in my left face/neck/ear with the broken bottle and chopped on the right side head/neck with the cue stick. Both repeatedly. My buddy saved me, he got behind the cue stick guy and took it from him and then gave out a solid beating on my assailant. The bottle stabbing guy who tore up my face and left my ear/cheek hanging open was very apologetic and kept wanting to explain that he mistook my intentions. I got lucky because there was a good plastics guy in the ED that night who took an interest in helping me. I have far worse stories if that’s what we are going for, but none of that means anything to anyone at all unless you know me or were there when it happened. I got beat up and stabbed trying to break up a fight... super cool huh? I cant even feel part of my left cheek/ear/face because of it after thirty years later, even cooler huh? Shall I regale you with more tales of my dumbassery?
 

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Just came across this news.
This news makes me think of sports vs self defense when people wonder what the difference is.

There are multiple stories about what happened but the end result is the same a lost of life at age 33.
My first martial art instructor was killed by a bullet.
 
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JowGaWolf

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One stab, two stab, ah ah ah. It’s not that glorious. I got between two guys to stop one from using a cue stick and the other from using the bottle he just broke. Long story short, I got stabbed in my left face/neck/ear with the broken bottle and chopped on the right side head/neck with the cue stick. Both repeatedly. My buddy saved me, he got behind the cue stick guy and took it from him and then gave out a solid beating on my assailant. The bottle stabbing guy who tore up my face and left my ear/cheek hanging open was very apologetic and kept wanting to explain that he mistook my intentions. I got lucky because there was a good plastics guy in the ED that night who took an interest in helping me. I have far worse stories if that’s what we are going for, but none of that means anything to anyone at all unless you know me or were there when it happened. I got beat up and stabbed trying to break up a fight... super cool huh? I cant even feel part of my left cheek/ear/face because of it after thirty years later, even cooler huh? Shall I regale you with more tales of my dumbassery?
Yep you definitely got me beat. It's good you made it out of that one. Something for others to think about in terms of breaking up a fight. Would I break up a fight these days? Probably not. Maybe I would after I get a good scan and risk analysis of the situation. I've always been worried about being caught up in a much bigger dispute than what I realize. In my younger years I would take that risk, In my older years I can't afford to bring any street drama home.
 
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JowGaWolf

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Sorry My first martial art instructor was killed by a bullet.
Sorry to hear that you lost your instructor like that. Do you know how it came about? You don't have to answer if you don't want to.
 

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Yep you definitely got me beat. It's good you made it out of that one. Something for others to think about in terms of breaking up a fight. Would I break up a fight these days? Probably not. Maybe I would after I get a good scan and risk analysis of the situation. I've always been worried about being caught up in a much bigger dispute than what I realize. In my younger years I would take that risk, In my older years I can't afford to bring any street drama home.
I was dumb. I still am to a lesser extent. I used that story because it shows how easy it is to do the right thing the wrong way. The guy with the bottle honestly thought I was protecting his opponent, which in a way, was true. I have been in far worse and far scarier situations than that one, but as I said it really doesn’t mean anything to anybody that wasn’t there. Just because I have seen and experienced a lot of violence in my life doesn’t add or subtract anything special to me or my martial arts experience. I think that a lot of people may equate these kinds of experiences as useful or informative on some level, I disagree.
 
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JowGaWolf

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I think that a lot of people may equate these kinds of experiences as useful or informative on some level, I disagree.
They are useful. You stepped in one of life's ditches and now more people know about it and me for one will do my best to avoid that ditch you stepped in lol. I look at life experiences like this. It doesn't mean that it will happen to me, but at least I know that it could happen and now I will think twice before doing certain things. That's useful for me.

That guy that's been on the news trying who went to a FBI office with a nail gun. Yeah. Lesson = Don't do that lol.. But seriously. People can learn a lot from the life experiences of others.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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They are useful. You stepped in one of life's ditches and now more people know about it and me for one will do my best to avoid that ditch you stepped in lol. I look at life experiences like this. It doesn't mean that it will happen to me, but at least I know that it could happen and now I will think twice before doing certain things. That's useful for me.

That guy that's been on the news trying who went to a FBI office with a nail gun. Yeah. Lesson = Don't do that lol.. But seriously. People can learn a lot from the life experiences of others.
Ok I get your point. I just think I have been unlucky to be in way more than my share of these types of experiences. I havent been in a fight in over 15 years. Since I met my wife. She keeps me safe.
 

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So many words....
He made a mistake in not finishing the person either dead or unconscious and that does appear like sports thought by habit or accident?
You can take a gun away if you get the chance and whoever keeps saying "gun is gun" to win the argument must not be much of a black belt?
It was very unfortunate and I think the virtue of the boy's character was part of not just "dragon squash roach" handling it.
But in the end, I wasn't there.
 

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So many words....
He made a mistake in not finishing the person either dead or unconscious and that does appear like sports thought by habit or accident?
You can take a gun away if you get the chance and whoever keeps saying "gun is gun" to win the argument must not be much of a black belt?
It was very unfortunate and I think the virtue of the boy's character was part of not just "dragon squash roach" handling it.
But in the end, I wasn't there.

That isn't a sport thing. That is not being a sociopath think.

Regardless of the style I was training. I was always trying not to kill people.
 
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