Woman kills intruder with 16-gauge shotgun while 911 listens

[Stuey]

Here is some info on offensive weapons and the law. This counts in public from what I can make out.
http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/law/weaponscrime/weaponsandthelaw
http://www.herts.police.uk/basestation/the_law/offensive_weapons.htm
"The law does not allow you to carry any item for self-defence"
I think that this shows the attitude towards weapons, even though people may defend themselves with weapons and be within the law.
I cant find anything yet for offensive weapons in the home.

Edit:
On all police service forums I saw the attitude was such that having a weapon designed to injure someone was a no no in just about any case. Exceptions include a handy large torch 'for when the leccy switch trips'. A large stick with a hook 'to close the tall windows'. A stanley knife 'to open the cardboard boxes that arrived from ebay'. They all condone using a weapon which is not designed to be a weapon. Most of the cases argued were in a shop of some sort or even in your own car and included 'where counts as a private place and public place?', the verdict of which was 'it doesnt matter'. It is my feeling that this attitude is carried over to the home. It was made clear that the police 'dont want every Tom, Dick & Harry carrying offensive weapons "just in case"'. I cannot directly link weapons with drugs, and granted this is just one perception of it. I think, however, that it is a valid one depending on circumstances according to my own experience.

 

[Tez3]

Here is some info on offensive weapons and the law. This counts in public from what I can make out.
http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/law/weaponscrime/weaponsandthelaw
http://www.herts.police.uk/basestation/the_law/offensive_weapons.htm
"The law does not allow you to carry any item for self-defence"
I think that this shows the attitude towards weapons, even though people may defend themselves with weapons and be within the law.
I cant find anything yet for offensive weapons in the home.

Edit:
On all police service forums I saw the attitude was such that having a weapon designed to injure someone was a no no in just about any case. Exceptions include a handy large torch 'for when the leccy switch trips'. A large stick with a hook 'to close the tall windows'. A stanley knife 'to open the cardboard boxes that arrived from ebay'. They all condone using a weapon which is not designed to be a weapon. Most of the cases argued were in a shop of some sort or even in your own car and included 'where counts as a private place and public place?', the verdict of which was 'it doesnt matter'. It is my feeling that this attitude is carried over to the home. It was made clear that the police 'dont want every Tom, Dick & Harry carrying offensive weapons "just in case"'. I cannot directly link weapons with drugs, and granted this is just one perception of it. I think, however, that it is a valid one depending on circumstances according to my own experience.

Oh well as you obviously know better I shall resign immediately and take up crocheting. You are allowed to use a weapon to defend yourself, that doesn't mean you are stupid and carry machetes around 'just in case', then you are asking for trouble. Condone is not the word to use, the word is 'allow', you are allowed to use weapons to defend yourself.
If you have to rely on having a conventional weapon to defend yourself you are going to be stuck if called to defend yourself just that one time you haven't got it on you, aren't you, thats why we do unarmed combat techniques. (Krav Maga is a good style for using anything thats available as a weapon) You have to be very sure about your competence to use weapons too, they can easily be taken off you and then you are in more trouble. Rely on carrying knives gets you into trouble in a couple of ways, firstly carrying it without a legitimate reason will get you into police trouble, secondly the temptation to use it is great whereas without a knife you can defuse a situation without it escalating but with a knife it's too easy to pull it out and use it. It's actually the same with guns, if you have one it's so easy to use.

Carrying around weapons is rightly against the law here frankly there is little need to walk around tooled up, it's paranoia that there's an attacker around every corner.
'Police' forums are the internet and the same people use it, so always take with a pinch of salt. The only ones that are taken seriously are the closed ones the public can't read.

 

[Stuey]

Oh well as you obviously know better I shall resign immediately and take up crocheting. You are allowed to use a weapon to defend yourself, that doesn't mean you are stupid and carry machetes around 'just in case', then you are asking for trouble. Condone is not the word to use, the word is 'allow', you are allowed to use weapons to defend yourself.
If you have to rely on having a conventional weapon to defend yourself you are going to be stuck if called to defend yourself just that one time you haven't got it on you, aren't you, thats why we do unarmed combat techniques. (Krav Maga is a good style for using anything thats available as a weapon) You have to be very sure about your competence to use weapons too, they can easily be taken off you and then you are in more trouble. Rely on carrying knives gets you into trouble in a couple of ways, firstly carrying it without a legitimate reason will get you into police trouble, secondly the temptation to use it is great whereas without a knife you can defuse a situation without it escalating but with a knife it's too easy to pull it out and use it. It's actually the same with guns, if you have one it's so easy to use.

Carrying around weapons is rightly against the law here frankly there is little need to walk around tooled up, it's paranoia that there's an attacker around every corner.
'Police' forums are the internet and the same people use it, so always take with a pinch of salt. The only ones that are taken seriously are the closed ones the public can't read.

PM'd.

 

[Tez3]

PM'd.

Shot gun licences are actually easy to obtain, just fill in the form online, send it to the police with photos, money, names of referees. A policeman will come out and interview you make sure you aren't a scrote and you will get your licence.
http://www.northeastshooting.co.uk/shotgun.html

Swords while expensive are easy to buy as well. Only money stops me buying lots! but it's hard not to drool at the blades.
http://www.sussexswords.com/newswords.html
http://www.blades-uk.com/
https://swordmart.co.uk/home.php?cat=21
http://www.bronze-age-craft.com/swords_for_sale.htm

 

[Stuey]

Shot gun licences are actually easy to obtain, just fill in the form online, send it to the police with photos, money, names of referees. A policeman will come out and interview you make sure you aren't a scrote and you will get your licence.
http://www.northeastshooting.co.uk/shotgun.html

Swords while expensive are easy to buy as well. Only money stops me buying lots! but it's hard not to drool at the blades.
http://www.sussexswords.com/newswords.html
http://www.blades-uk.com/
https://swordmart.co.uk/home.php?cat=21
http://www.bronze-age-craft.com/swords_for_sale.htm

Bad example. The message I want to get across is that a weapon for the sake of a weapon is frowned upon and may lead to charges of 'possession of an offensive weapon'. I fear that this may be the case in ones own home in certain circumstances. Even shop keepers who have been robbed several times have been advised against keeping 'weapons'. (in inverted commas because they have been advised that things which are not immediately designed but not altered as weapons can be kept for such a purpose).

 

[Tez3]

Bad example. The message I want to get across is that a weapon for the sake of a weapon is frowned upon and may lead to charges of 'possession of an offensive weapon'. I fear that this may be the case in ones own home in certain circumstances. Even shop keepers who have been robbed several times have been advised against keeping 'weapons'. (in inverted commas because they have been advised that things which are not immediately designed but not altered as weapons can be kept for such a purpose).

No you said we couldn't buy swords I was pointing out we can in case I start getting all those posts again telling me posters had friends emigrate to keep their swords or had to sell them. You can buy swords here, I said it would stay legal.

Often a baseball is advocated for self defence and the police go 'well no, don't think so matey' but carrying a baseball bat in a country that doesn't play the game is iffy to say the least. There is no need to carry illegal weapons, there are plenty of legal ones, a nice thick walking stick is good. there plenty on here who will tell you a cane walking stick is brilliant and perfectly legal. can be taken and kept anywhere.
http://www.thestickman.co.uk/generalsticks.htm

http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_barton-wright_0200.htm

In the home, there's golf clubs, hockey sticks, cricket bats and broom and mops handles just like Bo staffs only cheaper. There various garening tools as well, all legal and useful weapons. None of these, I promise, kept in the home will be illegal under any circumstances.

There's little need to carry offensive weapons here but with a bit of imagination you can use things to defend yourself legally and safely.

 

[Stuey]

No you said we couldn't buy swords I was pointing out we can in case I start getting all those posts again telling me posters had friends emigrate to keep their swords or had to sell them. You can buy swords here, I said it would stay legal.

Often a baseball is advocated for self defence and the police go 'well no, don't think so matey' but carrying a baseball bat in a country that doesn't play the game is iffy to say the least. There is no need to carry illegal weapons, there are plenty of legal ones, a nice thick walking stick is good. there plenty on here who will tell you a cane walking stick is brilliant and perfectly legal. can be taken and kept anywhere.
http://www.thestickman.co.uk/generalsticks.htm

http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_barton-wright_0200.htm

In the home, there's golf clubs, hockey sticks, cricket bats and broom and mops handles just like Bo staffs only cheaper. There various garening tools as well, all legal and useful weapons. None of these, I promise, kept in the home will be illegal under any circumstances.

There's little need to carry offensive weapons here but with a bit of imagination you can use things to defend yourself legally and safely.

Agreed and all to the better.
Just to clear things up, I dont think that we should all own guns in the UK or that we should all have a right to. It is possible for people to own guns legally, fortunately, this privellige is reserved for the responsible.
I get all flustered if a situation arises where I may require an implement to aid in my defense. In that respect it is frustrating that I need to consider 'improvised' weapons rather than weapons. Had I the forethought I would have previously planned and bought my implement which can be an 'improvised' weapon. And thanks for the shotgun tips, I had not thought of doing this previously. I may well research that one with a view to obtaining.

 

[Tez3]

Agreed and all to the better.
Just to clear things up, I dont think that we should all own guns in the UK or that we should all have a right to. It is possible for people to own guns legally, fortunately, this privellige is reserved for the responsible.
I get all flustered if a situation arises where I may require an implement to aid in my defense. In that respect it is frustrating that I need to consider 'improvised' weapons rather than weapons. Had I the forethought I would have previously planned and bought my implement which can be an 'improvised' weapon. And thanks for the shotgun tips, I had not thought of doing this previously. I may well research that one with a view to obtaining.

Shotguns in the UK always have a class stigma attached to them but a great many people shoot not just the upper class. It's a well respected country pursuit. There's plenty of places to shoot, farmers are always pleased to have rabbits and woodpigeons shot plus they make good eating. You can also shoot duck, goose, pheasants etc which aren't on a shoot. People pay thousands to shoot but it isn't necessary.

Looking around you to think what you can use as weapons is good practice as is looking to see how you'd get out of buildings ( and where the loo is lol).
Get yourself up to us and Mick will take you through improvised weapons. He can break an attackers wrist with a plastic spoon which I've always wanted to see explained in court lol! You use it as you would a kubotan when holding someone in a gooseneck, with a bit of pressure the wrist goes. A pen or pencil will do the trick too, a CD, torn drinks can or credit card makes a knife. Anyway, this digresses from the thread!! Apologies!
The best weapon is still the brain, this lady might have had a shotgun but she could also have panicked and it could have ended badly but she used her head, kept calm....and safe as a result.

 

[Archangel M]

"offensive weapons"??

Lord....

 

[Stuey]

"offensive weapons"??

Lord....

Hahaha, yeah.
Offensive weapon = bad.
Car jack round the head = ok. Go figure

At 57 no lady should need to be in that situation. Sad world.

 

[theletch1]

This has been a fascinating digression regarding British (or is that UK) law and "citizens" vs "subjects" and I've learned a great deal but can ya'll start another thread where these things can be discussed more deeply and directly without taking the original topic too far?

 

[Stuey]

Thats put to bed, appologies for the hijacking.

 

[Tez3]

Thats put to bed, appologies for the hijacking.

Yep all sorted. We agreed Brits right, Americans wrong! No, no only joking, honest!

 

[Mider1985]

Its a bloody shame the cops arent here to protect us......what exactly are they here for? to prevent crime? Oh yeah a person threatens you and they dont do jack. or they harrass you and they dont do jack. but when your laying face down dieing then they come in. Or when your family is being plagued by someone and you feel in yourself you have no choice but to take the law into your own hands THEN they show up. And act self rightious and then you have to put up iwth some self rightious lawyer...........the lawyers are all the same............they dont care if your actually innocent or guilty do they? Half of them dont probably most thats why they get paid so much, even the DA gives poeple breaks one guy is given immunity even though he killed all these people but his boss is a much bigger target............i guess thats justice i uno

 

[Archangel M]

Oh boy..another one.

Or the same one under a different name.

 

[CoryKS]

Its a bloody shame the cops arent here to protect us......what exactly are they here for? to prevent crime? Oh yeah a person threatens you and they dont do jack. or they harrass you and they dont do jack. but when your laying face down dieing then they come in. Or when your family is being plagued by someone and you feel in yourself you have no choice but to take the law into your own hands THEN they show up. And act self rightious and then you have to put up iwth some self rightious lawyer...........the lawyers are all the same............they dont care if your actually innocent or guilty do they? Half of them dont probably most thats why they get paid so much, even the DA gives poeple breaks one guy is given immunity even though he killed all these people but his boss is a much bigger target............i guess thats justice i uno

That's why I keep a police officer in a glass case by my front door. Yessir, if anyone tries to break into my house day or night, I simply tap the glass with the little mallet hanging on a chain and he goes right to work protecting me. I think everyone should have their very own police officer in a glass case. You can also buy carts with little wheels so you can take your police officer in a glass case everywhere you go.

 

[Deaf Smith]

CoryKS,

That would be nice. Kind of like a can of whup-***. Just pop the top and let the action begin.

But in actually, you are your own protection. Society mealy protects itself in general. The function of police is to keep order in society. It is NOT to protect anyone individual (unless you are a politician, and even then it's to protect the office, not the person.)


Here in Texas our can of whup-*** is called weapons. And many times you can carry a can of it cause the police readily admit they cannot be everywhere and most of them here are quite in favor of the CHL (concealed handgun license.)

It's even been liberalized to where you can carry an illegal knife (that's one with a blade at or over 5 1/2 inches), club, or handgun in your car WITHOUT a license.

Yet, compared to the East and West coast, we have less crime.

Deaf

 

[celtic_crippler]

"offensive weapons"??

Lord....

Is there any other kind? LOL

Its a bloody shame the cops arent here to protect us......what exactly are they here for? to prevent crime? Oh yeah a person threatens you and they dont do jack. or they harrass you and they dont do jack. but when your laying face down dieing then they come in. Or when your family is being plagued by someone and you feel in yourself you have no choice but to take the law into your own hands THEN they show up. And act self rightious and then you have to put up iwth some self rightious lawyer...........the lawyers are all the same............they dont care if your actually innocent or guilty do they? Half of them dont probably most thats why they get paid so much, even the DA gives poeple breaks one guy is given immunity even though he killed all these people but his boss is a much bigger target............i guess thats justice i uno

Unfortuneatley, in many cases LE's can only attempt to apprehend the criminal after you've become a victim.

In all fairness to LE, many of their routine tactics are meant to curtail and prevent crime from happening in the first place but at the end of the day the only person you can rely on being there at the time you find yourself in a sticky situation is you. Which is one of the reasons I study MA.

Also, you must accept the fact that they must act within the parameters of the law while criminals don't have to worry about that hinderance. So, if you have a problem with the law you need to take that up with your local government representative.

That's why I keep a police officer in a glass case by my front door. Yessir, if anyone tries to break into my house day or night, I simply tap the glass with the little mallet hanging on a chain and he goes right to work protecting me. I think everyone should have their very own police officer in a glass case. You can also buy carts with little wheels so you can take your police officer in a glass case everywhere you go.

Have you ever considered a career in stand up? You constantly crack me up! ROFLMAO

At any rate, I heard earlier today that no charges were being brought against the woman which I think is good and sends a clear message: if you break into someone's house you may be crappin' buckshot for the next month.

In all seriousness, I feel it's of paramount importance for people to know they can defend their life and property without fear of repercussion.

I'm compassionate and merciful, but I don't let those traits distract me from also holding people accountable for their actions.

Does anyone honestly feel that somebody breaking into a home that is not their own may actually think that it's okay to do so? Especially when their intent is to take property that doesn't belong to them or worse?

I challenge anyone to present a logical and rational argument that anyone choosing to force their way into another's home for the purpose of taking property that does not belong to them or worse; injure those inside (keeping in mind that the property owner has no idea what motives or intentions the one breaking in has) does not also freely choose any and all consequences resulting from that initial decision up to and including getting their head blown off by a shotgun.

 

[BLACK LION]

In the United States, the US Supreme Court has stated on numerous occasions that it is not the duty of the police to protect citizens:

"It is well-settled fact of American law that the police have no legal duty to protect any individual citizen from crime, even if the citizen has received death threats and the police have negligently failed to provide protection."

"...a government and its agencies are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981)

"Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public." Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989)

What this means is that self-defense is the responsibility of the individual. In the USA, that has historically been understood, and citizens have not complained that they are 'on their own' to protect themselves, choosing not to rely upon the state to protect them in real-time against whatever random dangers might come their way.

This historical understanding was coupled, however, with an understanding that law-abiding citizens have the right to arm themselves in order that they can provide for their own defense (as well as for other reasons).

In recent decades, both traditional understandings have come under challenge and have been subject to the changing tides of public opinion. Many are those who now feel that the state should indeed be considered the primary protector of the individual citizen, rather than the citizen themselves, and likewise that citizens therefore should not be armed.

In my opinion, one cannot exist without the other. The Supreme Court has always said, and continues to say, that the job of the police is not to protect the individual citizen. If that job falls on the individual themselves, then they must have the means by which to do so. That means access to firearms.

I mean this not as a criticism of any nation or their own system of governance. However, as often as I find the my nation to be messed up, wrong, and sometimes even idiotic, I could not live anywhere else in the world. I keep firearms and I always will. I won't have them taken from me by any legal entity for any reason whatsoever as long as I remain a law-abiding citizen, and I'll defend myself using them if forced to. I am a free man.

This was one of my arguments on my CCW application. It was denied.
I was basically told to go get shot or stabbed, survive, file a police report and then re-apply. He said they may consider it then...

 

[celtic_crippler]

This was one of my arguments on my CCW application. It was denied.
I was basically told to go get shot or stabbed, survive, file a police report and then re-apply. He said they may consider it then...

Well... you do live in California. Right?